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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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4.6 Blocks

Well, it seems im doing an engine build sooner than I had thought. I was driving in a storm last week and hit a puddle that turned out to be a mini pond in a turn lane Hydrolocked = junk.

Ive been looking around and there "seem" to be a few different 4.6 blocks? Im not talking Windsor or Romeo. DSS is charging $275 more for their "Cobra" block as opposed to the regular 4.6.

DSS Level 10 Block


Also, their 4.6 Super MODular package, which is block and guts, no heads or valvetrain, has a $2000 difference between the 2V or 4V option

Is there a difference between blocks in a 4.6 2v and 4v motor? Are water jackets in different places? I was under the impression it was the same exact block. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Fusion0507; 06-07-2004 at 05:26 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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After doing some digging I came across this article which has great info

Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords article


"* 4V heads on a 2V block--This swap is a direct bolt-on, however there are no advantages over using the aluminum block other than availability and/or cost. Note: there are a variety of chain tensioners that may differ depending on where the block was produced.

* 2V heads on a 4V block--This swap is a direct bolt-on. Advantages include lighter weight and ability to replace the sleeves and increase the bore size 3.70 inches."

So it would seem no difference then correct?
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Well, for any who are interested, I called FRPP Tech and the guy I talked to said that the only thing he could think of off the top of his head was that there are some extra holes in the 4v block for tensioner pullies, but that was it. He told me he had heard of ppl drilling and tapping the holes themselves

I called DSS and the person I spoke with said that the Cobra block was aluminum and he said it was very expensive, thats what the $2000 difference was. Also, for $295 they would drill and tap the holes in the 2v block. So, looks like Ill go with the 2v package and have the holes drilled and tapped and get some ported 4v heads
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion0507
Well, for any who are interested, I called FRPP Tech and the guy I talked to said that the only thing he could think of off the top of his head was that there are some extra holes in the 4v block for tensioner pullies, but that was it. He told me he had heard of ppl drilling and tapping the holes themselves

I called DSS and the person I spoke with said that the Cobra block was aluminum and he said it was very expensive, thats what the $2000 difference was. Also, for $295 they would drill and tap the holes in the 2v block. So, looks like Ill go with the 2v package and have the holes drilled and tapped and get some ported 4v heads
why not get an 02 Explorer motor? It is a PI motor with a 6 bolt main aluminum block. What are your peformance goals? Realistically that is.

joseph




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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
why not get an 02 Explorer motor? It is a PI motor with a 6 bolt main aluminum block
Because for $3000 i get this (and i decided not to go with an aluminum block over the iron):


The D.S.S. 4.6 Pro MODular™. GT is capable of making over 800 horsepower with nitrous or boost, however we recommend that you limit total horsepower to around 750 (mid to high 9’s @3200 lbs). For applications where maximum horsepower is required, see our 4.6 Super Pro
MODular™. GT option or call DSS for a quote.

Specifications

Block: NEW Production 4.6 block, ARP main studs, and new metric oil galley and freeze plugs are installed.

Crank: NEW forged steel 8-bolt crankshaft balanced to racing tolerances.

Rods: DSS 4340 forged steel H beam rods balanced to racing tolerances.

Pistons: Custom forged flat top, Balanced to racing tolerances. (Other optional compression ratios available)

Rings: Severe duty Speed-Pro moly rings. Perfect for high boost or nitrous levels.

Bearings: Federal Mogul Tri-Metal rod and main bearings.

Then get it blueprinted, main support system, 4v heads, port them, and ready to rock. I dont exactly have the extra for a blower right now, so for now it will get me by untill i save the cash then Ill tear it down and rebuild it for boost.

Mind you my block is now junk from the pistons mashing it badly or im sure itd be less with core. If i can find all the parts and its cheaper to build it myself, I will do that instead.


Quote:
What are your peformance goals? Realistically that is.
the 500 mark would be nice (with blower) I know in MM&FF they had 390 at the flywheel with ported pi heads, good set of cams, and pi intake iirc.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion0507


Because for $3000 i get this:


The D.S.S. 4.6 Pro MODular™. GT is capable of making over 800 horsepower with nitrous or boost, however we recommend that you limit total horsepower to around 750 (mid to high 9’s @3200 lbs). For applications where maximum horsepower is required, see our 4.6 Super Pro
MODular™. GT option or call DSS for a quote.

Specifications

Block: NEW Production 4.6 block, ARP main studs, and new metric oil galley and freeze plugs are installed.

Crank: NEW forged steel 8-bolt crankshaft balanced to racing tolerances.

Rods: DSS 4340 forged steel H beam rods balanced to racing tolerances.

Pistons: Custom forged flat top, Balanced to racing tolerances. (Other optional compression ratios available)

Rings: Severe duty Speed-Pro moly rings. Perfect for high boost or nitrous levels.

Bearings: Federal Mogul Tri-Metal rod and main bearings.

Then get it blueprinted, main support system, 4v heads, port them, and ready to rock. I dont exactly have the extra for a blower right now, so for now it will get me by untill i save the cash then Ill tear it down and rebuild it for boost.

Mind you my block is now junk from the pistons mashing it badly or im sure itd be less with core. If i can find all the parts and its cheaper to build it myself, I will do that instead.




the 500 mark would be nice (with blower) I know in MM&FF they had 390 at the flywheel with ported pi heads, good set of cams, and pi intake iirc.

take 3k times 10....thats how much it will take for you to make 500. That MMFF car did not make 390 N/A I think you are talking about Patriot Performance headed car. It had a blower.

If you actually want to make 500hp then just get a frickin renegade motor. If you want to know how much it will cost to make 500hp, check out Jack K's car. UPR in S. Florida built it and the previous owner dumped almost 50k in the car. You will not have a plug and play 500hp. do you think Dr Frankencougie (scott) spent just 3k or so on his car? i think not. Dont get ahead of yourself, you can spend 3k for PI motor, rearend, trans, TC, and bolt ons. And, yes, Im quite aware of the DSS advertisement, you cant miss it in MMFF every month.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 03:34 PM
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Joe,

In the July issue of MM&FF in the Mods for Mods article with TEA PnP PI heads on an NPI shortblock they claim to have produced 400 bhp.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 04:39 PM
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yeah and then they dumped a kenne bell with 10 psi on top of that with the compression being 10.2-1 before the blower and made just a hair over 600 at 6300 rpm( flywheel that is ) kinda impressive for a stock 98 4.6 bottem end!

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fast96Tbird
yeah and then they dumped a kenne bell with 10 psi on top of that with the compression being 10.2-1 before the blower and made just a hair over 600 at 6300 rpm( flywheel that is ) kinda impressive for a stock 98 4.6 bottem end!

-Derrick-
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 02:05 PM
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there is no way that motor would ever last any longer then 2 weeks on a daily driver, and it's stupid to boost high compression........but those numbers are still impressive!

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 03:37 PM
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heres what i dont understand bout these cars and the 2v 4.6L engines and even 4v 4.6s as well, why do u have to do so much to them to make decent power, hell supra guys can get 600 hp very easily, or the 03 cobra owners. Theres plenty of supras running around with 800 hp even 900 and close to a 1000 hp on a stock bottom end! same with skylines, those make insane power as well, doesnt take much to make big power with hose either. Explain... no im not a ricer whatsover, but i do look at to see what kind of hp #s imports make.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wilson502
heres what i dont understand bout these cars and the 2v 4.6L engines and even 4v 4.6s as well, why do u have to do so much to them to make decent power, hell supra guys can get 600 hp very easily, or the 03 cobra owners. Theres plenty of supras running around with 800 hp even 900 and close to a 1000 hp on a stock bottom end! same with skylines, those make insane power as well, doesnt take much to make big power with hose either. Explain... no im not a ricer whatsover, but i do look at to see what kind of hp #s imports make.
because Supras and 03 Cobras already have something called forced induction.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 04:29 PM
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and extremely beefy bottem ends that can handle all that power from all that forced induction ( ex. the 03 cobra has an all forged bottem end ) So all they do is find ways to make more boost.....keep it cool....get more fuel, and tune it and they can with minimal effort make hudge amounts of power.....and do it somewhat safely

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 04:38 PM
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i imagine supras have forged bottem ends if they can handle 900 hp or so on a stock bottom end.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 04:48 PM
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Im pretty sure they are forged...not 100 percent on it.....(I worked at a toyota dealership you would think i would know this) I know they are 6 bolt mains and their bore is same as their stroke so it's a very balanced motor, thats why it's a reving monster.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 07:56 PM
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Whoa guys...way off topic.

Fusion0507, do you have 3K to spend on the engine, 1K on the trans, 1K on the rear end, 1K on the fuel system, 1K on cooling, 1K on the exhaust, and 3K to spend on a blower? Those are realistic costs.




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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-09-2004, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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Mostly. Ill have $ for the motor and to get the heads ported, ferrea valves etc and comp camps. Hopefully by the end of summer I should have enough for a T56 or an X2C modified Tremec TKO 500. As soon as gkn is done with the halfshafts (in the gp section) im ready to order those. I have a Torsen T2 31 spline, complete rear poly bushing set, 3.55 ring and pinion gear, rear install kit, eibachs and konis collecting dust in my room atm =/

I just need to get some stock and make subframe connectors, a pinion brace, beef up the IRS, and i've been kicking around an idea to tie in a rear stb to a rear shelf cage i designed in AutoCAD 2004.

Btw, the blower is gonna be more i think. I was looking at a Kenne Bell 6-14 psi intercooled kit but that will probably be next summer.

I have a set of 2.5" high flow cats and a set of Borla mufflers so I need to get the tube and just fab up my exhaust.

Last edited by Fusion0507; 06-09-2004 at 05:44 AM.
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