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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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pi cam, pi intake istalaltion

Hey evryone!
This weekened I'll be installing pi cams, pi intake, accufab 75mm throttlebody, and the accufab intake plenum. I have done a lot of reading on installing this stuff and it doesn't seem that hard. However all the articles that I read came from modular depot. My question is, is there anything different from istalling this stuff on a tbird engine? I know that the 96-98 mustang engine and 96-97 bird/cougar are practically identical but I have read somewhere that there are slight differences in the installation procedure.
Can you guys also give me some pointers or tips for trouble spots. I just want his thing to come out right the first time so I dont have any problems later.
That's it for now, if i come up with any more questions I'll post them.
Many thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 03:57 AM
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Do you have auto climate control? If you do, you'll need to do something with the sensor that's in the stock hardline. You'll see it when you get the old intake out, but loopyj has some good pictures of his swap and solution for the SATC sensor.

With the gaskets, it's perfectly okay to lay the gaskets down on the head and run a /thick/ bead of RTV (high-temp RED) along the interior edge of the gasket. When the manifold is bolted down, the RTV will spread out and if the bead was thicker than the gasket, it'll seal just fine. Uhm... The water pump is going to be a huge pain in the ***. Once you get the bolts loose, get yourself a hammer and have alot of patience working it out.

On the cam swap, a quarter inch drive with a universal joint is going to be priceless when taking the valve covers off. if you need extra clearance, just jack one side of the car up. i found that that moved the engine just far enough to give me the extra room I needed.

PS Pump Removal: Jack up the Driver's side, pull the wheel off and attack a couple of those bolts from the wheel well with a /really/ long extension. Also, instead of trying to take the pulley off, just remove the PS Pump hardline to get your extra room. Don't forget, there's a teflon crush washer in that hole, so you'll need a new one from Ford.

On the pass side, it's too tight to get a ratchet on the oil-pan bolt, a 10mm ratcheting box end wrench saved my *** there.

don't forget to lube the cam "bearings" and journals with assembly lube.

You'll need an extra set of hands to get the crank pulley back on. I find a strap that if you have someone hold a strap wrench underneet while you crank on it with the torque wrench is the best way to get it back on. (And take it off for that matter, just replace torque wrench with breaker bar.)

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head... I'm sure somebody else will have more.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 10:53 PM
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my advice? turn your PI intake upside down and RTV the gaskets onto the intake.. here is a pic i took to show where the RTV should be:

http://members.tccoa.com/jamesd/pirtv.jpg

i have mine like this.. and so did chrisnack who sold me this intake

make sure you weight the gaskets down with boxes and shyt.. put some veggie cans on there, and leave it for a day or so if at all possible..

I did not take my fuel rails apart, i just unbolted it and popped the injectors out. easier to just slide the intake out and back in than mess w/ that stupid valve

i did not find that sensor and i have auto climate control.. my only issue was the NPI nipple, so i cut it as close as possible w/ pipecutter and used a rubber heater hose and hose-clamped it (those stock compression rings suck @$$)

also, i didn't need to separate my fuel rail like some people say, she fit perfect..

just take your time.. it might be best since you are doing both to go ahead and take the accessories, then intake off first, then the valve covers, and the front timing cover.. by the way.. go out NOW (or ASAP) and go to sears and buy a 1/4" drive 8mm universal socket... if they don't have one, get a 5/16" universal socket. it is a universal AND a socket in one piece... make sure you have a 6" extension, and you should have NO problems with those damned valve covers..

any questions.. post here, we'll get ya through it

and for the record.. i didn't remove any power steering lines.. but that bracket can kiss my ***


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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 12:14 AM
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Those rearward lower passenger side valve cover bolts SUCK! IMO thats almost the worst part. The worst part is removing that PS bolt... then cutting it off with a dremel so I never have to deal with it again.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 02:49 AM
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Both PeterM and myself have done our intakes by placing the gasket on the head and laying the RTV that way. No leaks for either of us, and I'm pretty sure I would have gotten a phone call from Peter the second he had a leak. lol.

The water pump nipples are interchangeable but you have to remove the water pump to do it. Once the pump is out, tap on the tip of the nipple until it pops free. To install the PI nipple, inset into the bore and use a long 1/4" extension or a small deep socket works.. and tap it into place. Voila. done.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 10:43 PM
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I used the NPI gaskets on birdofprey97's.. there are only two places that need sealed, instead of 8 on the PI. The silicone will eventually degrade on the intake ports, leaving 8 ways for air leaks. A little epoxy and patience will yield a better seal on the coolant passages. IF I had time I would have welded the passages, rather than epoxy. My theory is that over time the expansion and contraction of the intake/heads will destroy the silicone on the individual runners. 4.0L SOHC intake gaskets are a classic example of this loading, the early ones all shot craps at low miles.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Well thanks a lot guys for the input. I'll be starting on the project tomorrow evening (friday). I'll probably have some more questions during the install, that is if I run into some problems. I hope it'll come out all right. Cant wait to see the gains. Anyways i'll post the impressions after I finish it. I'll also try to take some pics to share of the install and the aftermath. See ya.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2004, 11:52 AM
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Sleepy, let us know how it goes and any hiccups you had. I myself am planning to put swap in a PI intake, PI cams, and the stock plenum/tb/maf/airbox from a '02 Stang GT. Just haven't gathered up all the parts yet.
post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys im having a problem identyfying which is the right and left cam. One with the orange markings, part # XL3Z 6250 CA. Can u guys please tell me on which side the cam goes on.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 04:10 PM
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both cams should have the small dot where you line up the timing chains, but only one will have a large about 3/16" wide by 1" tall or so protrustion (for the cam sensor). this will be the drivers side cam.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 05:11 PM
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http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...threadid=47991

heres a few pics for ya.....if you have any questions PM me.....i'd love to help

97 4.6L SOHC
(old times before headswap,PI cams, and PI intake)
N2O - 12.83 1/[email protected] --------- NA - 14.2 1/[email protected] mph

PnP NPI heads, PI intake with adaptor plates, crossover cooling mod, PI cams, 4100 lbs GVW, 2.25" true dual exhaust, Flowmaster 40 series, deleted cats, K&N cold air intake, 120HP NOS shot, NOS Programmable modulator, 80 psi fuel pump with reg., 9MM FRPP plug wires, Reinhart chip, Jmod, Mark8 T/C, FRPP 3.73 Alum. Rear-end, Dynotech MMC D/S, MSD coil packs, Custom ram air

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver95Bird
both cams should have the small dot where you line up the timing chains, but only one will have a large about 3/16" wide by 1" tall or so protrustion (for the cam sensor). this will be the drivers side cam.
Like he said, the driver's side cam gear will have a bump for the cam sensor. The pass side will be smooth except for the timing mark, (which is an indentation IIRC)
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-18-2004, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome, thanx for the help, but I'm afraid I'm gonna need a bit more.
Ok I'm taking this whole proces really slow. We're painting a lot of the engine bay and parts, and its slowing us down.
Ok the major problem is: according to modular depot we're supposed to tighten the bolts on the cam caps to 70-106 in-lbs. Now we didnt relize that its in inches and not feet, and we broke two bolts that go on the cam caps that hold the cam in place. Now I need get two replacemts. Are these special bolts, meaning heat treated and hard to get, or can i get them at some kind of a store.
Second problem, I was looking at the intake manifold. On the original one there are two sensors i belive that are on the aluminum crossover. Now on the PI intake manifiold there is only one place for only one sensor. And to add to that the matching one does not fit, but the one from the other side of the crossover works.
Sorry for all the questions, but its the first time im doing something this complicated.

Thanks very much.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 12:11 AM
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funny.. mine fit...

as far as the other one.. i think it was a 3/8" NPT tap. simple.. any machine shop can do it.. costs roughly $10-15

don't forget to teflon tape the threads first!

and make sure you tighten the cluster cap bolts in their specific order too..
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 07:26 AM
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The NPI aluminum crossover does fit in place of the PI aluminum crossover. I've bolted it up before, and it currently resides on a fellow member's car.

And those cam bolts are the same as the crank bolt, they are a Ford piece.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-19-2004, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sleepyhead
Awesome, thanx for the help, but I'm afraid I'm gonna need a bit more.
Ok I'm taking this whole proces really slow. We're painting a lot of the engine bay and parts, and its slowing us down.
Ok the major problem is: according to modular depot we're supposed to tighten the bolts on the cam caps to 70-106 in-lbs. Now we didnt relize that its in inches and not feet, and we broke two bolts that go on the cam caps that hold the cam in place. Now I need get two replacemts. Are these special bolts, meaning heat treated and hard to get, or can i get them at some kind of a store.
Second problem, I was looking at the intake manifold. On the original one there are two sensors i belive that are on the aluminum crossover. Now on the PI intake manifiold there is only one place for only one sensor. And to add to that the matching one does not fit, but the one from the other side of the crossover works.
Sorry for all the questions, but its the first time im doing something this complicated.

Thanks very much.
not sure about the broken bolts. but you can just swap the aluminum crossover from your non pi intake to the new pi intake. it bolts right up and you wont have to worry about drilling and tapping the pi intake crossover. thats what we did on mine and a friends pi intake swap.

Frank

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1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 - 13.7 @ 103
1993 Thunderbird LX 3.8 - Slow
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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All right guys, another question. When the pi cams are in place, and the cluster caps are holding the cams in place, is it normal for the cam to not to turn? It turns once, but then you cant turn it again. ???
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:03 PM
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i had to use my 1/2" ratchet to turn the cams so i could set timing.. only a pit to line marks up.. but.. still.. don't forget, if you turn the cams when they are bolted down, you are trying to open the valves too, and those springs don't like to be compressed

just try to make sure you put the marks in the "right" spot and make sure the crank is positioned right before you take the timing chains off..
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I didnt position anything before taking the chains off, I did it when they were off. If i did it wrong how can i fix it. It just never said aything in the instructions to position before taking the chains off. Im gonna try to set evrything up and try to turn the engine over, and ill post again.

Thanks
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:17 PM
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hehehe my bad..

what i did was make sure the marks on the crank were, i believe, at 6pm...

i snugged the caps down, and installed the chains one at a time, making sure to line the marks up on the cams...to properly do that when the tensioners were applied, i needed the ratchet to turn the cams a few degrees, otherwise they would be off 1-2 teeth... i then repeated the other side, made sure all marks were lined up, and started turning the engine by hand... a LOT of turns.. hehehe
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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All right thats what Im doing, awesome.
Now just to make sure, is there a certain specal position that the cams need to be positioned at, cause there seem to be three ways in which they fit. Just want to make sure everything is right, hehe.
Thanks
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, I am sure I have everything properly lined up, for setting the timing. Now am i not able to turn the crank by hand. Do you actually grab it by hand and turn it or is there another way to turn it manually. Come on guys Im gonna be here all night. Sorry for the "stupid" questions.
Thanks
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 10:38 PM
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youll have to put the crank pulley bolt back in the crank and use that to turn it......

suggestion.....once everything is lined how you think it should go the go ahead and take the time to run it through a complete cycle of rotations about 60-70 rotataions. That way you know for sure that the dots line back up.

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N2O - 12.83 1/[email protected] --------- NA - 14.2 1/[email protected] mph

PnP NPI heads, PI intake with adaptor plates, crossover cooling mod, PI cams, 4100 lbs GVW, 2.25" true dual exhaust, Flowmaster 40 series, deleted cats, K&N cold air intake, 120HP NOS shot, NOS Programmable modulator, 80 psi fuel pump with reg., 9MM FRPP plug wires, Reinhart chip, Jmod, Mark8 T/C, FRPP 3.73 Alum. Rear-end, Dynotech MMC D/S, MSD coil packs, Custom ram air

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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Wohhooo, it rotates.
Okay when I rotate there is a little hissing sound coming from the bottom and when i rotate it fast there is a slight rebound. It sounds like the air is escaping from a small opening, but when it stops escaping the crank rotates no problem. In order for the crank to rotate without the slight reound i have to rotate it slowely. When I do it too fast the air dosent escape in time and it rebounds. Is this right?? Hope this isnt too confusing.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 11:03 PM
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Sounds good to me so far. As long as you started with the crank keyway at 6 o'clock and lined up the opposite end of the chain (bright links, or opositely marked links) with the small indent dots you will be fine. Sounds like youve got it right. One bright link at 6:00 on the crank and the other on the dot. Easy as pie.

96 Mustang GT 5spd. w/ 248A Option (GTS). Stock for now until I get the Roush on.

97 Thunderbird 4.6L LX /w Sport Package
24k B&M Cooler, 1" lowered, Steeda UD Pulleys, Dynomax cat-back, J-mod, 3.73's, PI intake, PI cams, 03 GT MAF/Tube, SCT tuned - Gone but not forgotten.
MAMN12 Drag Racing Team [email protected] In need of updated times.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-20-2004, 11:08 PM
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Woaaaaa!!!

No offense, but you are way to far into your motor w/o some hands on experience...

I havn't been into my 4.6 yet, but from my experience there's usually a spot where you can wiggle the cam. As in a dead spot between valves opening and closing.

First off it's a bad idea to try to spin the cam or crankshaft seperate from each other as lot of motors are "interference motors" as in the valves and the pistons use the same real estate ( I.E. when the valves are open they'er where the piston would be at T.D.C. ... crunch, whoops!, no bueno...)

...turning the crank.... (unless your rings and bearings are shot you shouldn't be able to turn the crank w/o some gentle help from wrench)

may the force be with you...


Mostly stock...

For now...
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 01:00 AM
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Everything sounds right to me. You've got compression, so the engine is going to be difficult to turn by hand (And by hand I mean with the assitance of a breaker bar). And air doesn't like to compress so you're going to get a little bit of rebound when you stop trying to turn things as the air seeks to return to atmospheric pressure.

As you were, sleepyhead.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 01:26 AM
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resistance is futile or in this instance its good

97 4.6L SOHC
(old times before headswap,PI cams, and PI intake)
N2O - 12.83 1/[email protected] --------- NA - 14.2 1/[email protected] mph

PnP NPI heads, PI intake with adaptor plates, crossover cooling mod, PI cams, 4100 lbs GVW, 2.25" true dual exhaust, Flowmaster 40 series, deleted cats, K&N cold air intake, 120HP NOS shot, NOS Programmable modulator, 80 psi fuel pump with reg., 9MM FRPP plug wires, Reinhart chip, Jmod, Mark8 T/C, FRPP 3.73 Alum. Rear-end, Dynotech MMC D/S, MSD coil packs, Custom ram air

94 T Bird Project Car
Planned installs: Ford 460ci motor, Tubbed rear-end with Dana 40 Axle, NOS power adder, new paint job, complete roll cage
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 07:21 AM
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if u pull the spark plugs out wouldnt it be easier to turn just for the sake of lining up the marks? then just stick the plugs back in.

Frank

2007 Dodge Ram 1500
2008 Suzuki GSX-R1000

Previous Rides:
2003 Suzuki GSX-R750
2003 Mustang Cobra 10th Anniversary - 11.2 @ 130
1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 - 13.7 @ 103
1993 Thunderbird LX 3.8 - Slow
1990 Thunderbird 3.8 - Slower
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-21-2004, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdawg97lx
if u pull the spark plugs out wouldnt it be easier to turn just for the sake of lining up the marks? then just stick the plugs back in.

Frank
Very true.
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