Vortech or PnP/Cam Work? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-22-2004, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Vortech or PnP/Cam Work?

I would like some help deceiding what to do next, for a winter project?

I have a set of NPI heads I was planning to send out to Steen Racing for a PnP job to throw Comp Cams and Full Valve train work. Total Price with the headswap: about 3 Grand.


Or I started contemplating this idea....Vortech Supercharger. Here are my questions:

What would you do and why? Also would you choose a different route? If so What? Which makes sense to do first?

Vortech Blower costing upwards of 2500 used with the new injectors and so on, just a guess, tell me if I am wrong.


I am not into buying a new engine yet so, that is outta the question.

Thanks Alot

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 12:35 AM
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do the heads and cams first. you cant beat a supercharged car like you can an n/a car. especially with a stock bottom end.

Frank

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 12:38 AM
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should have just put this all in one post but anyway,

if i was you, i'd build it n/a and use the nitrous. do the head and cam work etc. then when you decide your ready to build the bottom end, do it all up. go forged everything and high compression and use nitrous as your power adder. that's what i'd do anyway.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdawg97lx
you cant beat a supercharged car like you can an n/a car.
huh?

please explain a bit more.

Thanks

Dave

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 12:56 AM
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Detonation is way more prominent on a blower car than N/A. It won't take the beatin'! Period.

MMMMMMM P&P heads, cams, flat top forged pistons, forged rods, 12c's, and a 150-175 shot

I'm not sure what compression ratio you'd want, but nitrous loves the high compression. 12:1 would be fun I'm sure, and would make for a killer N/A setup.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat94
Detonation is way more prominent on a blower car than N/A. It won't take the beatin'! Period.

MMMMMMM P&P heads, cams, flat top forged pistons, forged rods, 12c's, and a 150-175 shot

I'm not sure what compression ratio you'd want, but nitrous loves the high compression. 12:1 would be fun I'm sure, and would make for a killer N/A setup.
yea dave,

detonation was what i was talking about. like blaccat said, a supercharged car just can't take the same beating that an n/a car can.

Frank

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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I'm new to this so....

I know PI heads on NPI block will bump to 10:1
How would someone get 11:1 or 12:1 as you said?

So a blower and nitrous would be a bad idea?

Thanks

Dave

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 01:07 AM
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different pistonsmake different compression. flat tops like blackcat mentoined are good for high compression and then there's multiple sized dished pistons to make what ever compression ratio u need. the deeper the dish, the larger the combustion chamber and that makes lower compression. thats why flat tops are good for high compression cuz there's no dish so the combustion chamber is smaller and makes higher compression

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Frank...

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DMcBrideBoston
So a blower and nitrous would be a bad idea?

Thanks

Dave
Not if your engine is built to handle it. Nitrous makes for an awesome intercooler, which sheds detonation problems. I would liked to run a 30-50 shot on an S-Trimmed engine on day.

Also, milling the heads, and porting them affects your compression ratio also.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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So when I have my NPI heads PnP'd I will get a compression bump? If so to what?

Thanks

Dave

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 06:48 AM
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You won't get a compression bump with NPI heads. The PI heads have a smaller combustion chamber that do give a compression bump. The only way to get a compression bump with the NPI heads without changing pistons is to have the heads milled and that is a bad idea in my opinion.
You can run the ported NPI heads and nitrous on your stock bottom end as long as you don't go haywire with it. I wouldn't even think about anything more than a 100 shot, but again that is only my opinion.
I know where you can get a V1 S trim kit for $1700, but I wouldn't use one without getting forged pistons and rods to go with it. You will need to do a lot of work to the block to supercharge.
No matter how you go, the stock bottom end is a limiting factor if you want to run a power adder.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darrin
The only way to get a compression bump with the NPI heads without changing pistons is to have the heads milled and that is a bad idea in my opinion.
i agree. milling ohc heads is a bad idea because if they mill to much you could end up with retarded timing

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 10:04 AM
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Dave,

I saw your post and wanted to jump in here. I think that you'll be much better off and pleased in the long run to upgrade the heads and cams. I am headed out tomorrow (Friday) to test and tune my first shots of nitrous on the dyno and see where we go. I can tell you that 300+ rwhp NA is like nothing else in these cars and only gives you more room to grow, like nitrous or blower. If you want to PM me again, and hopefully I'll get it within the first 300 days after you send it, I'll help you with any info you want to know.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 11:08 AM
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2Vbird,

holy crap man your number and setup are very close to what I have planned. A lot of people on here prefer the blowers, but since I love to drive with a heavy foot, NA is the way I'm gonna go too. I'm impressed with the work you've done there. Nice job!

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 03:03 PM
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Do the PNP and cams first, and keep the 9:1 CR. Then should you decide to add the Vortech later, all is well.

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver95Bird
Do the PNP and cams first, and keep the 9:1 CR. Then should you decide to add the Vortech later, all is well.

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2004, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darrin
You won't get a compression bump with NPI heads. The PI heads have a smaller combustion chamber that do give a compression bump. The only way to get a compression bump with the NPI heads without changing pistons is to have the heads milled and that is a bad idea in my opinion.
You can run the ported NPI heads and nitrous on your stock bottom end as long as you don't go haywire with it. I wouldn't even think about anything more than a 100 shot, but again that is only my opinion.
I know where you can get a V1 S trim kit for $1700, but I wouldn't use one without getting forged pistons and rods to go with it. You will need to do a lot of work to the block to supercharge.
No matter how you go, the stock bottom end is a limiting factor if you want to run a power adder.
I wouldn't run nitrous and P&P heads on a stock bottom end, I wouldn't even run P&P heads on a stock bottom end. That said, I wouldn't run an SC on a stock bottom end either. If that motor let go, it could destroy your investment in those heads. That is my opinion, take it for what it is worth!

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