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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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MAF-VAF Circuit To Low???

My car tossed a light today and keeps stalling at stops and at an idle.I ran it on a tester and it poped up MAF-VAF Circuit To Low.So i cleaned the MAF and still no change in the actions of the car and the light came right back on.Well i took the intake tubes off and checked everything out and couldnt find and vacuum leaks or anything.I put everything back together and drove the car for 10 minutes or so and started the thing over and over again and no CEL.So now my code is gone but it is still acting in the same manner as it did when it was thowing the code.
It is almost like the TPS maybe bad or something but whouldnt that thow a code as well????Also at WOT the car will accelerate fine but every time in the middle of accelerating the car feels like it is misfireing.

Also i noticed that one of my plug wires was just touching the belt and very lightly rubbed away the rubber houseing around the wire.It did not cut the wire though.Any thoughts????It ran fine for 2 months and now this.
Thanks
Larry

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 05:28 PM
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What was the actual code, by number? P0102?

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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I didnt write the code number down.But that was the description
MAF-VAF Circuit To Low

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 05:51 PM
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replace the maf. get a voltmeter and test voltage being supplied through all wires *back prong them with metal t-pins*

search up what volts should be flowing through each wire. i know there is source voltage B+,ground,signal in *heating circuit*,signal out to pcm. i forgot what voltage should be going to and coming out of the maf but test them. if the voltage going to the maf is ok and within specs then replace the maf.

edit: 4 wire mafs are stated above. if you have 6 then the extra 2 are your iat wires ie: 96+ mn12's. Refer to owners/chiltons/haynes manual

if the voltage is way too low flowing through any of the circuits test the voltage coming out of the pcm to the maf. if the voltage is ok from the pcm then you know there is a problem inbetween the pcm and the maf. check the wires for damage/cross'/shorts anything that would damage or interupt the circuit. if the voltage coming out of the pcm is low then a bad pcm might be the culprit, but i doubt that.

i doubt its the tps seeing how you got a code for low circuit voltage/signal. as soon as it detects the maf going below the specs it would throw that code. a faulty tps sensor would feel like a loss of power at whatever rpm position it is faulty at. say you loose power only at 3/4 throttle in ALL gears no matter what throttle condition its in *WOT/Lite* then thats a faulty tps sensor. judging from your description when you WOT the car its fine throughout the whole rpm band/throttle position. but if you want to test it use an osciliscope to test its analog signal. it should look like a smooth slope going up with no bumps or distortions going from 0%-100% open back down from 100% to 0%. if its a smooth slope then the sensor is fine. IF it has a squigilly distorted signal at a certain % ie: 50% open throttle then replace the sensor.

this SAME thing happened to me on my way to one of the qualcomn meets and i know what you are talking about. at light throttle it feels like its sluggish or going to die but at WOT its fine. the maf will tell the pcm how much fuel to supply so if you WOT her then it will automatically dump fuel into the engine for power. at lite take off the car wants to die cuz the signal is soooo low that it doesnt see that much air coming in. the result is a low amount of fuel which gives it poor idle cuz there IS more air than what the maf is telling the pcm. that incorrect conflict would be the culprite of what you are experiencing.

Hope that helps.

-Mike

Last edited by Porkchop; 09-06-2006 at 05:59 PM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Also at WOT the car will accelerate fine but every time in the middle of accelerating the car feels like it is misfireing.
Thanks it does help.But one more thing.Does the 96 v6 sensor work with my 95 car???2 different part numbers but i know Eric aka (sniper77) put a MAF from a v6 on his v8 and it supposeivly runs fine.
What do you think?

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 06:15 PM
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V6 and V8 use the same MAF, but the P/N for 96-97 is different because the connector changed.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 06:15 PM
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middle of excellerating? as in through the pedal or rpm? like power drops at mid rpm at wot from a dead stop? or when excellerating and pushing down the throttle half way it looses power?

test your maf with a voltmeter and check the specs. also check the tps with an o-scope voltmeter.

i wouldnt want to run a v6 maf on a v8 car seeing how i think they are different diameters and they also have different calibrations. go to the junkyard and look for the same year v-8 and take the maf lol. or search here on the boards for a used stock maf for your v-8 *i got a v8 maf off a 94 bird for $10 off a local guy*, look for a 94-95 seeing how i think you still have the stock 4 wire mad. people switch to pi motors/larger mafs here all the time so post it in the wanted section and they could sell it to you from 15-35 bucks or even cheaper. if they dont sell it that cheap i know the going rate for a MAF sensor unit at the junkyard runs 37.95 here w/ warranty.

i believe your car isnt stock btw and it has the pi motor with it. im no sure if you had to use a different maf or use the one that came with it, but i guess its time to invest in a 02 mustang maf/airbox/tube. i believe jason preslar of fordpartscounter sells that as a kit and you would get the maf/airbox/cone filter all for a low price. im not sure if the tube comes with it but he can supply it also.

oh and whenever changing maf's/injectors that arent direct replacements i would recommend a tune/chip/programmer. lonnie doll is a great sct dealer and can make you a chip/tune for whatever mods you tell him you have done ie: pi motor/injectors/maf/ rear end gears etc. look him up here or @ www.blueovalchips.com

-Mike
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 06:24 PM
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FYI there was never a 6 wire MAF used in an MN-12. And it's always been the case that the V6 and V8 cars used the same MAF sensors, even between the 3.8 and 5.0. The transfer function is programmed the same in both MAFs, the only difference is how the ECM interprets the data. The only one that got a different diameter and sensor was the SC.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master486
FYI there was never a 6 wire MAF used in an MN-12. And it's always been the case that the V6 and V8 cars used the same MAF sensors, even between the 3.8 and 5.0. The transfer function is programmed the same in both MAFs, the only difference is how the ECM interprets the data. The only one that got a different diameter and sensor was the SC.
ahhhhhh i did see a 6 wire maf in mikes *sandiegolxbird* 96 tbird but i jus remembered he had an 02 mustang maf. and i knew the v6 sc and v8 had different diameters, but i never seen a v6 maf or ever worked on one so i jus assumed. i learn something new everyday . i thought the 5.0 maf was smaller? o well thanx for clarifying that.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkchop2oo2
middle of excellerating? as in through the pedal or rpm? like power drops at mid rpm at wot from a dead stop? or when excellerating and pushing down the throttle half way it looses power?

test your maf with a voltmeter and check the specs. also check the tps with an o-scope voltmeter.

i wouldnt want to run a v6 maf on a v8 car seeing how i think they are different diameters and they also have different calibrations. go to the junkyard and look for the same year v-8 and take the maf lol. or search here on the boards for a used stock maf for your v-8 *i got a v8 maf off a 94 bird for $10 off a local guy*, look for a 94-95 seeing how i think you still have the stock 4 wire mad. people switch to pi motors/larger mafs here all the time so post it in the wanted section and they could sell it to you from 15-35 bucks or even cheaper. if they dont sell it that cheap i know the going rate for a MAF sensor unit at the junkyard runs 37.95 here w/ warranty.

i believe your car isnt stock btw and it has the pi motor with it. im no sure if you had to use a different maf or use the one that came with it, but i guess its time to invest in a 02 mustang maf/airbox/tube. i believe jason preslar of fordpartscounter sells that as a kit and you would get the maf/airbox/cone filter all for a low price. im not sure if the tube comes with it but he can supply it also.

oh and whenever changing maf's/injectors that arent direct replacements i would recommend a tune/chip/programmer. lonnie doll is a great sct dealer and can make you a chip/tune for whatever mods you tell him you have done ie: pi motor/injectors/maf/ rear end gears etc. look him up here or @ www.blueovalchips.com

-Mike
When i am at WOT the in my fury for HorsePower the car almost feels as if it dropping a cylinder.Thats what i meant in the middle of acceleration.
I get the same cost as jason on dealer parts but the problem is haveing the money to buy the stuff right now.
Im still using the stock MAF and all i want is the car to finish out summer and fall untill i park it.Then i can upgrade the MAF,tune,ect...

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95

Last edited by 95xbird; 09-06-2006 at 08:07 PM.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Well i just tried the 96 style sensor and the plugs are different.I do not want to buy another OEM sensor.Id rather buy an upgraded peice for the money.
One problem....No $$$$

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2006, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master486
V6 and V8 use the same MAF, but the P/N for 96-97 is different because the connector changed.
I told you the plugs were different! I know your money situation though. Been there many times. Luckily I haven't been hosed like that in a while. Hope you get it sorted out.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-07-2006, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Well i have a 95 v6 Sensor as well and im gonna try that tonight.Ill let you know how it works out.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-07-2006, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ok the other MAF worked.Car actually seems to run alot better/Faster than before.
Thanks for the fast response's guys.Your help is much appreciated and everything worked out.
Thanks again.
Larry

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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