Knocking & Pinging Cured! - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-25-2006, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Knocking & Pinging Cured!

My '97 TBird 4.6L has been with me for about 2 1/2 years, now, and was knocking and pinging horribly for about the last year / 12,000 miles. It only has about 45,000 miles on it as of this morning, and the original owner from whom I bought it was the stereotypical Little Old Lady who only put about 20,000 miles on it the first 7 years of its life, so it was pretty much mechanically a cream puff when I got it, with just scratches on the body as evidence of its true age. I read and tried / checked all the things I could find here and on Crown Vic and Grand Marquis forums (I also own a 2005 Crown Vic Sport) about knocking and pinging and how to fix them, but all's I could figure as a fix was to run 93 octane. I tried absolutely everything else. Finally, about 10 days ago, the CEL came on, the car threw me a code, and it said the bank 2 O2 sensor was bad. I was on my way home from work, near home and nearer to an AutoZone when the light came on and so I stopped, they read the code, and I bought the sensor. The OK mechanic (not as good as I am, but he has lifts and more tools) I sometimes use was only another mile away, so I rushed over to his shop to see if he could install it for me before closing, but it was already too late and he was backed up, so I had to leave it. I told him how often you all say the code is frequently bogus and asked that before installing the sensor the next day, he instead first do what he could to more thoroughly diagnose it and only then do whatever he thought was needed to cure the real problem. Long story short -- when I called him around 4 the next day to see if the car was done, he told me he was just about ready to start working on it. When I got there at 5:15, his helper told me he (the helper) had simply changed the sensor, that the boss had done nothing else. I was pissed, but hoped the $60 some - odd Bosch sensor from AZ and $25 labor would just possibly fix my problem.

Well, today, after nearly 500 miles and the last couple of hundred run on almost straight 87 octane (had to burn off the 1/2 tank of 93 I started with when the job was done), there is absolutely NO knock or ping anymore, and the CEL has not come back on -- seems like this time, it really and truly was simply the code that was thrown was correct! 

Yahoo!!

Now, why the hey did the sensor go bad in less than about 30,000 miles? Does age play a role and not just mileage / hours of engine operation? It was fine when I got it, but it had been just sitting in the original owner's yard for nearly 3 years.... I wonder why the other one seems to be still good, or how long before it too will bite the dust??? Very strange, but now I can burn the cheap stuff again without fear of doing serious damage! Car runs GREAT on 86 octane!!!

(I have no idea how those little squares got in here -- I cut & pasted this from an EMail I did at work and sent to my home so I could post it when I got here?!?!? Sorry!!)

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-25-2006, 07:09 PM
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Probably went bad from just short trips and nothing else. If she never took it out and let everything get nice and hot, like a run down the highway then it probably got carboned up and threw the code. Just a guess though!

Jay

These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 03:56 AM
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The little squares are due to the browser or font you are using. :p maybe even the OS, if you are running a *nix platform (unix) "Linux" with Mozilla or Netscape browser will truly do the little box thingys ... :P
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 07:05 AM
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You got of easier than I did in trying to find a pinging problem....

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=61503

Doesn't it feel good to actually fix something that has been haunting you for a while!!

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 08:31 AM
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I have found the Bosch O2 sensors don't work 100% with the heater circuit from the stock ECM. I cured my "bad" Bosch O2 sensor by simply swapping it side to side with an old stock NTK Ford. I now have 2 brand new Bosch sensors that have the same problem, they won't work on my pax side but are fine on my drivers side. The 144,000 mile OEM NTK works fine on the pax side. I learned the stock heater circuit is a PWM and it appears the NTK O2 can handle a poor heater signal better.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 09:07 AM
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glad to see that you got your issue resolved
most people recomment swapping both O2's at a same time tho as they do effect your gas milage and some other things
also i dont know if its smart to run your car on 86 as 89 is what its made to run on
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
89 is what its made to run on
say what? does he have a chip? no, then the cheap stuff is just fine and buying a more expensive grade of gas is just wasting money.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 10:07 AM
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I use the lowest grade I can run without detonation.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Car runs GREAT on 86 octane!!!
ERRRRRRR my bad i meant 87 NOT 89. stupid work is destructing me from this forum
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 10:42 AM
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My PINGING was caused by a dirty maf , now I run 89 octane and no pinging .

Its easy to clean the MAF so do it !

1997 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 Sport .

60'...... 2.06
1/8th .. 9.194
mph .... 77.13

mods*
PI heads *PI intake*Mark VIII torque converter*Cobra T-loc w\4.10's * Jmod*tranny fluid cooler*P&P stock T/B & plenum*UD pulleys* Dynotech 4in ds*80mm Lightning maf*Xcal2*02 GT intake tube.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
I use the lowest grade I can run without detonation.
Darrin

Glad to hear you got the problem solved! Darrin, should I experiment? Hypothetically, would a car make more power on the lower octane if it didn't ping?

Jeff Stafford
NMRA MM #6
Thanks to BC-Automotive, Modular Head Shop and Delta Force Tuning.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 11:07 AM
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Not really Jeff, what it does is make you less broke after you pay the pump. Running more octane than you need is nothing but a waste.

Sorry for the temporary hijack here, but Jeff asked and he need some info.
This one is only for Jeff (and never for a power adder car!), if you can get away with less octane without pinging then you in particular need more timing. I know you are trying to get the most out of what you have and I don't know whether you have the user adjustability on your xcal2 or not. If you do then you can play with adding spark a few degrees at a time to see what happens. If you don't then you can have your tuner do a 2 degree global spark adder for the octane pin where you pull it to add 2 degrees. That way you can try it safely and put the pin back if it pings. Work up the spark until it pings and then back it down to the last place that it didn't.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-26-2006, 01:20 PM
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Thank you sir! Hijack off.

Jeff Stafford
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Thanks to BC-Automotive, Modular Head Shop and Delta Force Tuning.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-27-2006, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the feedback, Guys! I'll keep all that info in mind, especially if the pinging or the CEL come back, but still so far, so good! Btw, I think I goofed, I do in fact buy Hess 87 most times, NOT 86 (and no, I don't have a chip, the car is bone stock)! don't think I've even seen 86 here, not sure what I was thinking!
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