4.6 suddenly running real rough - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2006, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy 4.6 suddenly running real rough

Have a 97' T-bird LX. This is my 3rd bird (84,93 previously). My cats have been throwing a code for quite some time and it is on the list to fix. But suddenly this afternoon as I left for work, the engine is running real rough...now this wasn't a gradual thing that progressively got worse, as I am very attentive to how she sounds and runs, even if I am unable to fix everything immediately. Now diagnosing via internet is not a science, I understand, but I was wondering...

With the rough idle...it makes me think of a misfiring plug...(I intend to change out in the AM)

or

A bad spark plug wire..

or (worse yet)

Maybe my gasket is going ( I replace my head gasket onthe '93 V-6 at the same mileage 145,000)

Also the 'Check engine light' that has been on due to the cat convertor issue, now flashes on occassion while driving. this is new.


Any inputs on 'check for this' . "Don't make this mistake' or any other info would be appreciated.

Thanks

K
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2006, 11:06 PM
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when it flashes then the car should be serviced immediately and should preferably not be driven at all

get the codes scanned at the nearest auto parts store and write the codes down, then you can look them up at several different sites for the definitions using any internet search engine or here
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 04:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input..

Have determined that I have not blown the headgasket (yet..) Oil is clean....coolant looks good....no white smoke out of exhaust. This is no guarentee that the hg is not blown....but I think I am ok in that regard. Was very low on oil..added three qts...gonna need to watch that a little better..

Buddies of mine are coming over with OBDII reader, and I'm gonna change the plugs....when I have the codes, I will post here...

Thanks again.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Got the codes

These are the codes that popped up before changing plugs and clearing codes:

P0171B
P0174B
P0305B
P0430
P1443


After changing plugs and running for about 5 minutes ar 40mph sustained...The Check light started flashing...Re-checked codes

I believe it was P0305B #5 misfire detected.

I believe I will need to run a little more before the P0430 and P1443 return, I believe they will as they have in the past.

Gonna pick up some new wires...

Any other suggestions?

Thanks all

K
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 02:58 PM
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check the contacts on the coil packs and put in new plug wires.




"Booyah". Stu Scott.
1996 Braincoated, all Aluminum PI powered and obscenely loud Pearl White Tbird [email protected] AKA Dyrdek.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 03:15 PM
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You are right, 1443 will likely come back, search for that code, it is a common one. I replaced all soft lines, the purge valve and the sensor to fix it.

Cylinder 5 is a common one to fill up with water/coolant if you have a split intake coolant crossover or broken coolant crossover at the thermostat spot, so check for water (which you probably did since I now see you changed the plugs)

0430 is likely caused by the misfire, so if you get that fixed, it shouldn't come back (bank 2 catalyst system efficiency below threshold).

0171 and 0174 means both banks are lean, it is at the max correction limit for fuel and can't make it not be lean. There was a recent post on these as well, the Service CD shows both max lean and max rich possible causes, I would clean the MAF and check for an unmetered air leak that would affect both sides (after MAF but common to both banks), or the EVAP issue can also cause this if there is a big enough leak.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks GM, TGO and Bangster.....I will check all those. Thanks for ther input.

Appreciate the feedback....it has helped!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 02:07 AM
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Dont make my mistake.

Quote:
You are right, 1443 will likely come back, search for that code, it is a common one. I replaced all soft lines, the purge valve and the sensor to fix it.
Be sure that you replace the sensor.

Now the purge valve canister can be purchased at an autozone or dealership but I was told countless times that the sensor simply does not exist. This is a complete lie. Either go grab one from the junkyard, or show them the darned thing and make them figure it out at a dealership.

I sware if I would have done all that myself I would have saved so much time and cash. They did alot of diagnostics and that is what I got charged mainly for. The sensor is like under $10 but the dealership said it did not exist when I told them what it does and its name and its alternate name (thermistor). But magically when it came time to replace it they knew what it was.

Well thats just my rant/ $0.02.

P.S. someone correct me if I am wrong but running the car with the sensor off is ok since the sensor just makes sure the Purge valve canister is doing its job. If its doing its job than the sensor is not needed as it does not control anything except the CEL. So I would say rather than argue with a dealership over names and what the darned thing does just take it out and say "I need this"
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 08:23 AM
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for the 1443 code, replace both the solenoid and the canister, in addition to the rubber hoses, as they dry rot and crack over time.




"Booyah". Stu Scott.
1996 Braincoated, all Aluminum PI powered and obscenely loud Pearl White Tbird [email protected] AKA Dyrdek.
2013 Black on black FX2 Supercrew Ecoboost F150. Roll onto the scene with the ceiling missing.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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I am going to clean my MAF tommorrow (eh..later today). It is my understanding that this should be done with the engine cold...I goota run down and pick up some wires and the electrical component cleaner (If i can find it). How long should I let her cool down before taking it (MAF wires) out to clean....I'm not a complete idiot, but my patience is sometime lacking....Also, what other low costs parts might I want to replace....Money as always is tight.


Thanks again for all the input.....

K
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-03-2006, 07:29 AM
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You can remove the sensor from the housing and car and let it sit in the open for 15-30 minutes to be sure it is cool.

Currently In the Short Bus Garage:
2 - '94 T-bird LX's 4.6L (one with 300,000+ miles and one with 200,000+ miles)
1 - '97 Mark VIII LSC - INTECH V8 (120,000+ miles)
1 - '97 F150 XLT 4x4 Flareside, 4.6L (130,000+ miles) - Currently being dismantled and rebuilt with upgrades!
1 - '00 Mustang GT (likes to accelerate with the brake on!), 4.6L (60,000+ miles - only comes out when I need to get somewhere fast.)

oh yeah, and they all have 4R70W's
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the input. After changing the wires and plugs it ran worse...so I finally gave in and took it to my mechanic (trusted, 16 yrs and counting), And he informed me that a coil pack has gone bad, replaced it and it is running well (so he says, I can't pick up until tomorrow)...

Is this a possible sign of future problems? Or is this just one of those things that go out in a much driven car with 145k+ miles?


Ken
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 09:50 PM
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the coil packs are know to go bad sometimes as far as Ive read. In Sean Hylands Book he says they ahve been known to develop cracks also on the bottom. The condensor is also know to malfuntion and short out causing missfiring. I just unpluged my condensors and threw them out!

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