So, about this Aviator engine... - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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So, about this Aviator engine...

Will the intake fit under any of our available aftermarket hoods? I've searched, and haven't found any definate answers.
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 05:38 PM
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I don't even think it'll fit between the shock towers.

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusraybrown
I don't even think it'll fit between the shock towers.
and why not?



it might fit under the vfn hood but i dunno.

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 06:11 PM
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It's just a DOHC.It will fit in the bay.Hood will be an issue though.Do what goldbird did and cut a hole in the center.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 06:42 PM
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What kinda heads does the Avi have? Could you replace the intake with the 96-8 Cobra KB kit?

-Joel

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'13 Mustang GT Premium 5.0L V8, Auto, Brembo, Black - Daily Dark Horse
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 10:31 PM
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godspeed the ports are diffrent. You could use the 99 up cobra kb kit.

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 10:36 PM
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Do you know if thats intercooled?

-Joel

Previous MN12s:
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Bought 01/12/08 w/ 33,000 original mi. Big plans, little execution. Sold as a fallen victim to life's happenings.
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Leaky shifter @ 137,441; what a good ride. Gone to the crusher, but not forgotten... moth and rust doth corrupt.

'13 Mustang GT Premium 5.0L V8, Auto, Brembo, Black - Daily Dark Horse
'11 Edge SEL AWD 3.5L V6, Loaded, Black - For the Misses
'98 F-150 XLT RegCab 8'Bed, 4.6L V8 4x4 ORP Oxford White - Work Truck

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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 10-31-2006, 10:42 PM
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Checked, it is.

-Joel

Previous MN12s:
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Bought 01/12/08 w/ 33,000 original mi. Big plans, little execution. Sold as a fallen victim to life's happenings.
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Leaky shifter @ 137,441; what a good ride. Gone to the crusher, but not forgotten... moth and rust doth corrupt.

'13 Mustang GT Premium 5.0L V8, Auto, Brembo, Black - Daily Dark Horse
'11 Edge SEL AWD 3.5L V6, Loaded, Black - For the Misses
'98 F-150 XLT RegCab 8'Bed, 4.6L V8 4x4 ORP Oxford White - Work Truck

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 03:46 PM
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Aviator engine should fit...it's just a 4.6 DOHC, lots of guys here have done DOHC swaps and mucho helpo is available.

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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 06:12 PM
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My bad, for some reason I thought it was a 5.4 DOHC.

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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusraybrown
I thought it was a 5.4 DOHC.
Well even if it was it still shouldn't pose a problem.I dont believe the 5.4 is wider than the 4.6.Just a taller deck and longer stroke to my knowlage.

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Its slow, Really.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-01-2006, 08:22 PM
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5.4L DOHC will not fit, check this thread out...

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=69170

Unless you call that "fitting." The frames of these cars are soft as it is, and I have no doubt that the torque from that thing will ultimately cause it to fatigue and fail, assuming they can get the power brake booster to clear the DOHC valve cover. Because of geometry, if the deck height is taller, the 90 degree V-8 will be wider.

Pete

-97 XR-7
-5.0 Big Bore ...
Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
9.0 @ 78 (1/8 Mile only in Abilene )
2.06 60' on Street Tires (BFG G-Force Super Sport 245/50/16)
3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
That Run, Corrected for Standard Day
1/8 mile: 8.75 @ 82
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-02-2006, 08:51 PM
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ditto, each to his own, but IMHO i dont think the marginal power gains are worth the extream time and effort to 5.4 a mn12 vehicle, i think the 5.4 is usually a pipe dream for people.

it takes alot of dedication to get one in, its hard to keep at something like that...and is impressive to say the least when someone does do it...even though i wouldnt do it...

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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-02-2006, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG PETE
5.4L DOHC will not fit, check this thread out...

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=69170

Pete
I stand corrected.Is the 4.6 DOHC and the 5.4 DOHC about the same or real close in power????

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 01:10 AM
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 01:16 AM
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That'd be worth cutting a hole in the hood for.

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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyd0g
That'd be worth cutting a hole in the hood for.
Thats the plan

Thanks for the pic Kdanner, that really puts it into perspective.

I'm going to shoot for trying to cram one of those big suckers in early next summer.
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 09:00 AM
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I have a mathematical equation to solve the hood problem.

Engine - Aviator intake + KB 99-01 Cobra kit = little to no hood problems.

You know you want to Ryan!!!

-Joel

Previous MN12s:
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Bought 01/12/08 w/ 33,000 original mi. Big plans, little execution. Sold as a fallen victim to life's happenings.
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Leaky shifter @ 137,441; what a good ride. Gone to the crusher, but not forgotten... moth and rust doth corrupt.

'13 Mustang GT Premium 5.0L V8, Auto, Brembo, Black - Daily Dark Horse
'11 Edge SEL AWD 3.5L V6, Loaded, Black - For the Misses
'98 F-150 XLT RegCab 8'Bed, 4.6L V8 4x4 ORP Oxford White - Work Truck

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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird
I stand corrected.Is the 4.6 DOHC and the 5.4 DOHC about the same or real close in power????
As I remember correctly, the 4.6 DOHC depends on model. Mark VIII's got 280 hp, early Cobras and Marauders got 300, and later Cobras got 320 before they found boost. Early engines made 300 ftlbs, the more powerful ones made 320.

The 5.4 DOHC makes 300 hp, but makes a lot more torque (360 ftlbs?) at a significantly lower RPM.

Pete

-97 XR-7
-5.0 Big Bore ...
Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
9.0 @ 78 (1/8 Mile only in Abilene )
2.06 60' on Street Tires (BFG G-Force Super Sport 245/50/16)
3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
That Run, Corrected for Standard Day
1/8 mile: 8.75 @ 82
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 02:35 PM
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The Aviator is essentially the same longblock as the Marauder and the Mach I. The big difference is the intake manifold.

While the Aviator is rated at 302 hp @ 5,750 rpm and 300 ft./lbs. @ 3,250 rpm,
the Marauder has 302 hp @ 5,750 rpm and 318 ft./lbs. @ 4,300 rpm and the Mach I puts out 305 hp @ 5800 RPM and 320 ft./lbs. @ 4200 RPM.

For comparison, the '02 Cobra is rated at 320 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 317 lb./ft. @ 4,750 rpm.

The primary differences in these engines is intake and exhaust. Note that, while the nte torque figure is lower for the Aviator, it comes on at 3,250 rpm vs. 4,200-4740 for the others.

The Aviator manifold is essentially a poor man's FR500 intake. The Aviator 4.6 L uses an aluminum intake manifold with variable runner lengths. The Aviator intake manifold is similar in design to the Ford Mustang FR500 intake manifold sold through FRPP for $3000 though the material (magnesium), runner lengths, and throttle bodies differ.

A lot fo Cobra guys are taking the Aviator intake and modifying the lid to lower the profile and accept the Cobra throttle body. I've seen unsubstantiated claims of 500hp with this manifold.

As you can see, the Aviator is much taller than the Cobra.




Compare the FR500 on the left with the Aviator on the Right.



If you can find a way to control the short runner butterflies and deal wit the height, this manifold has the potential for stump-pulling torque and not running out of breath on the top end.

If the height is an issue, another alternative is the late Continental dual runner manifold. While there are no butterflies in the secondaries it should have a pretty broad power band. I'd like to see some results for a ported version of this puppy.


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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thats great information SlickRoads, Thanks for that contribution! The more and more I think about it, this is going to be a fun swap to do. I've just got to locate one in good condition, and schedule some time to get the swap done. I'm just trying to find the best way to tune the stock computer to run the 4v (minus variable intake length) at the moment. I don't trust the competence of most of the local dyno shops due to some of my friends' experiances with them.
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 03:23 PM
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one guy on modularfords.com was successful in making an adapter plate to use the 99/01 cobra upper lid on the aviator manifold, thus reducing the total height by a lot

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/1...r+intake+cobra
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro
one guy on modularfords.com was successful in making an adapter plate to use the 99/01 cobra upper lid on the aviator manifold, thus reducing the total height by a lot

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/1...r+intake+cobra
I found this dyno sheet on the above link comparing the Mach I intake with the Aviator.



Notice how much quicker the torque comes in. While the peak is not as high, the torque curve is flatter. The hp is higher on the top end and holds it longer.

As for the secondaries, I would try to find a way to control them. There are a lot of Mark VIII swaps that are taking advantage of the IMRCs. I would check with some of those people to find out how it is done because the variable intake is the advantage of the Aviator.
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-03-2006, 09:15 PM
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I've been tuning a few of the Aviators and 5.4 DOHC Lincolns. There are parameters to control the IMCC operations just like there are for the older Cobra's and Mark's IMRC. I'm sure a window switch can be used with the IMCCs just like we do with the IMRCs using the EECs without provisions for these.

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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 01:26 AM
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The Aviator intake I have is a prototype. Not only does it have IMCC, it also has CMCV, so 2 actuators on the back side.




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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 09:17 AM
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That would make things a little more difficult. Although there are benifits to both it would take some testing to figure out what setup would work the best. Gut feeling without any testing I'm thinking dump the CMCV. We already know the new style CC works well without them. But then on the other hand the might work well with the IMCC removed. Have fun testing.

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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 09:43 AM
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Just from a recyclers point of view. Those aviator motors used to be cheap as hell. I remember buying a lot of five of them for 900 bucks a piece. Now they are becoming a scarce find.

Any build with an aviator/mach1/marauder motor would have to include doing the bottom end, as the rods are the weak point with them.

I remember reading a post by jerry saying that even in NA form that motor didn't pass fords durability standards but they still went with it. The bottom end is junk.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinH
Just from a recyclers point of view. Those aviator motors used to be cheap as hell. I remember buying a lot of five of them for 900 bucks a piece. Now they are becoming a scarce find.

Any build with an aviator/mach1/marauder motor would have to include doing the bottom end, as the rods are the weak point with them.

I remember reading a post by jerry saying that even in NA form that motor didn't pass fords durability standards but they still went with it. The bottom end is junk.
Yeah I was offered 2 of them for $1,200 complete with harnesses about 6 months back. Now your going to pay twice that for one with parts missing and no harness. Hind sight, should have done it. Hell I tried to pick up a used intake for some testing and they wanted $400 for it bare.

Yes, I remember Jerry telling me the same thing, the blocks wouldn't pass and they were on number 7 or so revisions and still unable to control the block movement. The rods are a complete joke.

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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 12:18 PM
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Guess that takes the KB kit out of the equation.

-Joel

Previous MN12s:
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Bought 01/12/08 w/ 33,000 original mi. Big plans, little execution. Sold as a fallen victim to life's happenings.
'95 Thunderbird 4.6L V8 - Performance White
Leaky shifter @ 137,441; what a good ride. Gone to the crusher, but not forgotten... moth and rust doth corrupt.

'13 Mustang GT Premium 5.0L V8, Auto, Brembo, Black - Daily Dark Horse
'11 Edge SEL AWD 3.5L V6, Loaded, Black - For the Misses
'98 F-150 XLT RegCab 8'Bed, 4.6L V8 4x4 ORP Oxford White - Work Truck

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-04-2006, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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EEK! Didn't know that little tidbit of information. I can't afford building up the bottom end, so should I stay away from this thing?? I don't plan on doing any further modification to the aviator motor, but I would be beating on it thing occasionally... Last thing I need to do is throw a rod...
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