Where do I begin... - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 27
Where do I begin...

This is my first post here, have been waiting anxiously for 2 days to be able to post ...


I just bought a 1997 Thunderbird LX v6, and probably a money pit and headache generator along with it...


The engine..... oh the engine...

The engine runs rough at idle. The MAS is unplugged. With it plugged in the idle smooths out great, but the vehicle will then have no power and will not accellerate. I had a Toyota that had a similar problem and it was the TPS at fault. I also noticed that 2 O2 sensors had been removed (holes plugged and wires cut).

Does anyone have the procedure to check the MAS with a voltmeter?

Next issue... Oil pressure.... not so much.

This engine has oil pressure issues. I know the gauge is really a fancy idiot light, however from experience I know this engine does have oil pressure issues as I can hear the valve train making noises, especially when the gauge drops.

My first inclination is to pull the pan off the engine while its somewhat in the car, toss new bearings in there and put in a new oil pump. I know this is just a band aid but if it buys me 6 months, thats fine.

Option #2 is go to a local yard and buy a used engine and hope its ok. I don't know what year engines/components interchange with my 97 though. (v8 swap NOT an option at this point)

Option #3 is I just pull the engine completely out and overhaul it myself. Don't particularly like this as it entails sending stuff out to machine shops (and I am fairly new to the area and have no connections/recommendations on where to go for good work), also this option would take way too much time.


I can't drive the car right now either. After a short cruise around the block, one of the rear metal brake lines decided to rupture and shot brake fluid all over the ground, and of course the car now has almost no stopping abilities at all. I'll be addressing this as soon as my double flare line tool gets here in the mail.

After I get the brakes fixed, many more posts to come I'm sure.


Thanks


Dan

97 Thunderbird LX v6
gs69350 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 02:16 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,746
Garage
wow, wont go and when it does, it wont stop! lol! that's not good tho. the o2's being cut is no good, as the eec uses these for a/f mix. as for the swap, i can tell you that a 97 3.8 works in a 94 (with some minor work)

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W - Part-out soon
jco1385 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 02:25 PM
Road warrior extrodinaire

Super Moderator
 
Trunk Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: This Week: Russellville, AR
Posts: 11,797
Garage
Ouch! Sorry to hear you're off to such a rough start with your TBird. Sorry, I can't be much help since I have absolutely Zero experience with the V-6 engines. But, I'm sure there are lots of other people here that can help out.

Anyway, Welcome to the site!!



Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. FusionŽ Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
Trunk Monkey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 02:28 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,746
Garage
ok, so why did you buy this car with so many problems? hopefully you didnt pay too much

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W - Part-out soon
jco1385 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 27
because I didn't pay too much...

The body and interior are in good shape. Only eyesore is a 2" dent in the front bumper.
gs69350 is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 02:56 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,746
Garage
mine has a few "dents" like the one i got from a mailbox when i slid around a corner doin 50... thats not gonna be cheap to smooth out!

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W - Part-out soon
jco1385 is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2007, 10:00 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Blindloser1080's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington
Age: 34
Posts: 647
You could always clean out the MAS on that one, VERY VERY easy, but be very careful, and see if that helps ya do anything. I know rough runnin can be cause of a dirty MAS

Only way I know for the oil pressure is to drop the pan, change everything out inside, and call it good. Hopefully that will help you out on that one. Not a particularly hard job to do, but if you're in there, you might as well do it right.

Good luck with the bird, there's lots of us on here who can always lend a helping hand!

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

RIP Orion 800.4 amp, and Ascendant Audio 12" sub. Caught on fire in trunk...
Blindloser1080 is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-26-2007, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 27
I'm not even driving the car yet, still waiting on Harbor-slowazz-freight to get the flaring tool I purchased a week ago to me.

As far as engine controls go, the guy I got the car from said the MAS was bad and unplugged it so the car would drive. It drives (drove?) ok but idle is crap. I had it on a lift when diagnosing the brake problem and saw that there were no o2 sensors at all, just cut wires. There is no CEL, the bulb may be out, but I can't see any other way why it isn't on. I'm still waiting for a diagnostic procedure on the MAS to determine if it is bad or not. I can see it being dirty though.
I saw a post regarding special MAS cleaner spary, is this spray something I can pick up locally? I don't recall seeing it at AutoZone, but I never looked for it either..



Hopefully I'll get a chance to "play" with it today...


Dan
gs69350 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-26-2007, 11:32 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,746
Garage
i'd also lke to know where to get the MAF cleaner, because i dont have mine plugged in either.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W - Part-out soon
jco1385 is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-26-2007, 12:53 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Blindloser1080's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington
Age: 34
Posts: 647
no special cleaner to do the sensor. You do though however have to have a special torx bit with a hole in the bottom of it to take off the sensor piece (available at autozone for 9.99) but to actually clean off the sensor, just take and spray a q-tip with carb cleaner, and lightly rub the q-tip on there, it will clean everything off. Then let it dry of course, then put it back on. Short, sweet and too the point.

I just cleaned mine 3 days ago and this was the exact method i used.

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

RIP Orion 800.4 amp, and Ascendant Audio 12" sub. Caught on fire in trunk...
Blindloser1080 is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-26-2007, 03:38 PM
Pedal Faster
 
Josh_Keady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: No. Oregon
Age: 35
Posts: 2,658
Send a message via AIM to Josh_Keady
Your car should actually have 4 O2 sensors, two before of the catalytic converters (either in the down-tubes or the exhaust manifolds themselves), and two after the converters, in the exhaust system. The two that are after the cats are just to measure efficiency (and presence) of the catalytic converters. If they're gone, it really shouldn't affect driveability.

The two before the cats, however, they're quite important.

I don't have a test procedure for the MAF (then again, I don't have a MAF car), but would certainly try the cleaning procedure first. Unplugging it makes the car default back to a set of pre-determined values for air flow at the immediate throttle position (I think... don't quote me on that), so if unplugging it makes the car run better, I'd be nearly 100 percent that the problem really is the MAF. Clean it, and if that doesn't work, might head to a junk yard and see about getting another.

Good luck on it.

Josh Keady

1994 Super Coupe ('93 5.0L swap), 1990 Tbird 3.8L, 1982 Honda CB900F, 1972 F-100 SportCustom 4x4, 1970 Chevy Custom Camper / 20
Josh_Keady is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2007, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 27
"The voltage at terminals A and B with engine on should be 10.5V
The voltage between C and D should be .34 - 1.96 V at idle.
If not you may have an electrical prob in the sensor head. "

I'm getting 14.0 between A and B and .90 between C and D...

Gonna replace it, I have a lead on one.

With the MAF plugged in, the car idles well but when you hit the gas it just bogs almost endlessly (as if no extra fuel is coming in with the extra air) and will die if in gear.

Dan
gs69350 is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
twin turbo 281's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Auburn WA
Age: 35
Posts: 2,631
Send a message via MSN to twin turbo 281
as far as the o2 sensor wires being cut just go to a wrecking yard and find a motor harness that will plug in over the motor

2x95 cougars to the scapper
97 F250 psd 4x4 dd twin charged
48 Gmc Detroit diesel 453t twin sticked
45 Chevy 451 detroit twin sticked
51 Mack A51T restoration
twin turbo 281 is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2007, 09:12 AM
PCD
Confirmed V6 Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dubuque, Iowa
Age: 63
Posts: 2,261
Dan,

Check eBay for a MAF. That is where I got my last one.

How well do you know and trust the previous owner? Was there a chip put in? If so is it still there?

Your car has been modified and jury rigged. You need to find out what was done to it or you will be chasing crap. You may just have to do a "Stem to Stern" diagnostic on the car.

Have you looked in the KY Chapter forum for people to hook up with? That may be of the greatest help. Otherwise get to know Darin, Lonnie, DirtyD0g, Thomas and other experts here, and send them your "mail order" business.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
PCD is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome