Failed fuel pump? - Need your expertise - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Failed fuel pump? - Need your expertise

I have a '95 3.8 with about 150K miles on it. I rebuilt the heads last summer after a blown head gasket. Car runs great but is a real rust bucket. My son has the car at school about 200 miles away and it won't start. Cranks great but there is no fuel pump hum. Grounding the FP pin on the test connector causes a relay click but no FP hum. Car did not die while driving. It was running fine until it was shut off in the college parking lot. Next time he tried to start it this problem occurred.

1) Is this the usual failure mode? Seems unusual that the FP would fail after it was shut off one time and started the next. Are there other tests that could be done to confirm pump failure?

2) Is it reasonable or even possible to install an external FP in the existing line without dropping the tank or removing the old FP? Tank straps and bolts and exhaust system are way too rusty to remove.

3) Is there any other alternative? Has anyone cut a hole in the floor to access the FP? Is there some combo of fuel cell and external FP that would be reasonable to install outside in the winter weather (upstate NY)?

4) Should I just set the car on fire and forget about it?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 10:21 AM
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Did he check the the fuel pump switch in the trunk? It's possible someone could have backed into the car while it was parked and tripped it.

Just a thought.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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I took a quick look at it. Pressed down on the button to make sure that it was closed. Do you agree that this is an unusual failure mode? Car should quit as soon as the pump fails even if it is running down the highway - right?
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 10:47 AM
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That's they way they will fail.

If you have somebody hit the tank wile someone else is cranking it, it will most likely start up again and run until you turn it off. Then you would have to do the same thing.

The commentator on the pump motor has a bad spot.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, I'll have him try that. Any suggestions on inline pump?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 11:10 AM
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I wouldn't suggest running an external pump through an old pump an a efi system.

The tank isn't that hard to drop. To change the fuel-pump you don't even have to disconnect the fill and vent hoses or the rear straps.
Just spray the front 2 bolt's with PB blaster (there is no substitute for PB Blaster) wait about 20 minutes, then crack them loose.

for the exhaust, just slide off the rubber hangers, remove the small cross-member bracket and just let the exhaust hang down.

You can lean the tank enough to remove and reinstall the pump.

I've come into this world with nothing and still manage to have some of it left.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info. Straps are so rusted that the fuel tank would have to be replaced. I put an inlet tube and vent on it last summer. Old one rusted through the vent. Large area around fuel door was rusted as well as all the inner fender structures and part of the trunk floor. Repaired all that last summer. Even the cross member bracket is so rusted on that it can't be removed. Tried it last summer. PB blasted all bolts overnight. Broke the first one that I tried to remove. Threads on bolts are so thoroughly rusted that threads are not recoverable. Set fire to it is a better option at this point.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 11:24 AM
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The threads are not on the vehicle they are little threaded metal tabs, just break off the bolt's and replace them with nut's and bolts. as far as the fuel tank, it is made out of plastic.

I've come into this world with nothing and still manage to have some of it left.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 01:12 PM
 
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As Ron Popeil would say, set it and forget it!

It might be time to start reaching over your shoulder with a rubber mallet and beating on the rear passenger floor everytime it starts acting up. With the key on of course.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Have you guys actually tried this pounding on the floor or gas tank option successfully? The car is far away from home and if I could get it started then I could get it home to work on. Otherwise, I'll have to scrap it where it is. Hate to do that cuz car has lots of new parts and rebuilt engine. Where abouts is the fuel pump located in the tank. (I would consider cutting a hole in the floor to work on it). Crazy huh?
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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bump
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 03:58 PM
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Yes I have done this, On just about everything with an electric fuel-pump.

When I worked at a shop and a car was towed in, I would check everything out. after that I would have somebody crank it over while I would hit the tank with a rubber mallet. after it would start I would pull it into the shop (beet's pushing it) and order a fuel-pump and sender assembly.

I've come into this world with nothing and still manage to have some of it left.

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1994 Thunderbird, 4.6 V8, PI heads, SVO Blower, 8# pulley, 2.5 duel exhaust, 4R70W, MarkVIII converter, Mark VIII differential, Trac-Loc, 3.73 gears, H&R 1.5 lowering springs, bilstien rear shocks and SC front struts.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cool...I'm gonna call my son and have him try this. Where in the tank is the pump located - passengerside, driverside, center, front back??
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 04:18 PM
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passenger side toward the front.

I've come into this world with nothing and still manage to have some of it left.

ASE Master Technician and Advanced Level Specialist.
It's not what I know, It's knowing what I don't know.

1994 Thunderbird, 4.6 V8, PI heads, SVO Blower, 8# pulley, 2.5 duel exhaust, 4R70W, MarkVIII converter, Mark VIII differential, Trac-Loc, 3.73 gears, H&R 1.5 lowering springs, bilstien rear shocks and SC front struts.
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