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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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blew the water pump

I was driving home from seeing Vantage Point tonight and when I dropped off the g/f I noticed a sweet smell, and nice amounts of steam coming from the front end. Smelled like coolant(before I got out to check) but the temp gauge hadn't really moved much. I pop the hood to find coolant everywhere and a slight grinding noise (not loud enough to hear in the car) hoses are intact and seem fine so I am guessing water pump.

I drove it home 8 miles, and when I got home it was just starting to push the needle past the mid way point. I checked for white smoke from exhaust but there wasn't any. I havent checked my oil yet though( this all happened in the last hour or so) I doubt that it has anything to do with the HG but here is my question... I got the car for free a year and a half ago, when I got it my friend had a HG go on him while he had it, and he used that "life time sealant" crap instead of fixing it, so do you guys think a new water pump will put out more pressure and cause the seal to blow? Also what else, other then "fatigue" can cause a water pump to go bad? is there maybe an underlying problem Im not seeing?
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 06:45 AM
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water pumps wear and eventually crap out like anything else. If it were my car i would put a new water pump on it and have the HGs replaced. IMHO the "sealant" probably accelerated the Water pump's demise. I would never use that on any of my cars (of course i know you really didnt have a choice, since it had already been done.)

So i guess what im sayin is replacing the water pump wont necessarily cause more "pressure" in the system (heat does that) but you may get better flow to knock something loose. Other wise, that sealant is a ticking time bomb, IMO

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Red Green, is that you? Might consider looking into fabbing an intake setup that isn't so, well, ghetto.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 10:55 AM
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I'd say it's the water pump. A head gasket would not spew coolant over the engine. Water pumps have a relief hole on the bottom of the pump. The bearing or seal is what fails. When the seal starts going coolant will drip through the hole on the bottom. If the bearing goes the water pump pulley (and fan if equipped) will move back & forth. I have seen instances where the bearing failed and launched the fan into the radiator.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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ok so it sounds pretty simple, I guess I will just replace the pump for now since I dont have the time or money to do/have the HGs done. Are the bolts stubborn usually? and are there any special tricks I need to know? I have the electric fan so that part isn't a concern. Also Im thinking my motor is a ticking time bomb anyway so I dont want to put all that effort into the gaskets, I just need it to last a little while longer.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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oh and the last time I changed the fluid, I noticed a lot of rust in the fluid and the over flow container had a rust coating in it. Also the drain on my radiator didnt work I even took it all the way out and didnt even get a trickle. Is it time for a new rad? and what would be the best way to back wash the motor to clean it out before I put the new pump on. I want it to be clean as can be. Last time I jus took the lower hose off.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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So I went and got a new pump 73$, and I picked up a new rad too its made by crs or cfs i cant remember?? It cost me 179$. I figured it could only help, if the other one was so clogged it couldnt drain, maybe it wasnt working efficiently enough either.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 09:53 PM
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$179? Ouch... When I was looking around for prices, I found a place that was only $110 or so. I found that most of my problems were probable because of this:



The radiator side between the AC rad was just packed with crap.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
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eh I got it through straus, I prob could have gone to a rad shop but I had to get the pump so I just ordered them both at the same time. only had to make a trip to one store then. I hit the bolts with some liquid wrench type stuff that claims it "breaks rust apart" I sprayed it on and will do it again when I wake up to work on it. I no the rad has to be pretty gunked up because of the fact the drain doesnt work, and the rust colored sediment that keeps working its way into the over flow tank. I will probably keep the rad that was in there and try to get all the crap out of it so I have an extra incase theres a problem with the new one. I bought 2 gallons of 50/50 mix, and 2 quarts of mercon V , how much trans fluid am I looking to lose in the process?
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewishkah View Post
how much trans fluid am I looking to lose in the process?
Definitely not 2 quarts. Anytime i've ever done it, i lost < 1/2 quart. Unless of course you have it running when you take the lines off you'll loose less if you do the job with the fluid nice and cold.

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Red Green, is that you? Might consider looking into fabbing an intake setup that isn't so, well, ghetto.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 06:53 AM
 
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I wonder if the "rust" you keep seeing isn't the sealer the previous owner put in it. It may also be why your radiatior would not drain.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
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I wonder if the "rust" you keep seeing isn't the sealer the previous owner put in it. It may also be why your radiatior would not drain.
+1... I knew i forgot to mention something, lol.

Quote:
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Quote:
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Red Green, is that you? Might consider looking into fabbing an intake setup that isn't so, well, ghetto.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 06:58 AM
 
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I wonder what the condition of the heater core is.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewishkah View Post
I had to get the pump so I just ordered them both at the same time. only had to make a trip to one store then.
I've done the same thing. Sometimes its easier to just buy everything in one place instead of waiting on shipments from some company just to save $20 or so. You may want to just toss the old rad. It is probably beyond repair being aluminum and all.

The two bolts that hold the rad on are common metric bolts you can get at the hardware store if you have to break them or cut them off. With the fine thread they may not break. Hope they come off easy though.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the heads up on the bolts. The car will most certainly be cold lol Its been sitting over a day now in 20-30* temps, im hoping that with the low temps the bolts contract enough to make things easy. here I go...
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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progress:
started around 2pm, got the fan off real fast, drained all of the fluid out of the lower hose since the drain was no good. I disconnected the trans lines , took off the lower & upper hoses, then the belt. I then unbolted the radiator from the support and lifted it out and drained it into the drain pan I must have lost a bunch of fluid because the over flow was empty and I only got a gallon out from the rest of the system.

So I start on the pump, all of them nuts/bolts come off pretty easy with no sheering thank god, Im not sure if its the stuff I sprayed on them last night, or what but they were like warm butter in comparison to bolts I have dealt with on other cars, even newer ones. So I get down to the last 2 and see that the PS pulley has to come off. At this point I break for lunch and then go to autozone to pick up the tool, another 23$ later and I have a puller/installer which should prove useful in the future and just another tool to add to the collection. As I get the bracket off I go to remove the last nut, that is on a stud, but the stud unscrewed from inside the block instead of the nut just coming off, the stud was covers in what looked like motor oil? It screwed back in just fine and seemed as snug as the rest but could this be a problem?

Ok so then I remove the old gasket and clean it up a bit, put the new gasket on and slid it over the studs to hold the gasket in place as I put all the bolts back in. I tightened them in sequence so I didnt warp anything. I bought a new belt while I got the puller, goodyear something so I put it on, its supposed to be quieter but who knows? lol. I put the bracket back on and then the pulley on the PS and the water pump, put the rad in and hooked up the trans lines and at that point I called it a night, had my brother come help me push it up the driveway to be the first car in so I dont have to move for anyone. I didnt want to put the hoses back on yet because I want to flush the motor first and I didnt get a chance to do that yet, I would hate to put that old fluid into a brand new rad. One more question, on the inlet pipe,it seemed like it would leak even when it was bolted down, so I put some rvt around the pipe right at the top, Is this ok? or is there something special that goes there?
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-24-2008, 11:47 PM
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Nice job! Glad all went well (unlike mine)... next time you want to get a tool from autozone, just rent it, money back when you return it.

Describe inlet pipe? Do mean to the pump or the block? If the either is leaking, use clamps that screw tight instead of the stock ones. Mine leaked too after I put it back together and I used a screw clamp and it stopped.

BTW, one of the bolts for the pump requires you to use teflon tape around it. As for the bolt that came out on the braket side for the PS, mine came out too. Just clean them off and slap it back in.. you did clean it, right?

"3. NOTE: The threads of the No. 1 water pump retaining bolt must be coated with Pipe Sealant with Teflon® D8AZ-19554-A or equivalent meeting Ford Specification WSK-M2G350-A2 before installing."

Last edited by white lincoln; 02-24-2008 at 11:56 PM.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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The metal pipe going into the water pump just seals with an o-ring. If you are really concerned, just replace the o-ring and it will seal, even if it doesn't feel all that tight in there.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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got it all back together and found that now my trans lines are leaking, I got the lower one to stop, I think. but the upper one wont stop, its leaking from the coupling between the line and the coupling not from the threads. I tried numerous things to fix it with no luck. Im not sure I could change the line on my own because Im a big guy and cant get that far under the car to see how. Is there a trick im missing? I also noticed the rad connectors were different then the old one. The old one had those extra piece that sticks out, the new one doesn't and the old ones don't come off. PLEASE HELP ASAP...
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 05:38 PM
 
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The pieces that are sticking out of the old radiator should come out, or maybe there are new ones in the radiator box? The parts you didn't switch over actually mate to the ends of the trans lines, whereas where you have them connected to the radiator now, they are not actually sealing.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 06:04 PM
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got it all back together and found that now my trans lines are leaking, I got the lower one to stop, I think. but the upper one wont stop, its leaking from the coupling between the line and the coupling not from the threads. I tried numerous things to fix it with no luck. Im not sure I could change the line on my own because Im a big guy and cant get that far under the car to see how. Is there a trick im missing? I also noticed the rad connectors were different then the old one. The old one had those extra piece that sticks out, the new one doesn't and the old ones don't come off. PLEASE HELP ASAP...
Did you use Teflon tape on the threads? You need that - about 3 or 4 wraps. Make sure you push on the line as you tighten the nut as well. It may not be seating as the nut is being tightened and it WILL LEAK! Good luck.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-25-2008, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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I got it finally, I had to spray the old radiator pieces a bit and then with a vise grip and hammer I knocked them lose. It fixed it right away and yes I did use the Teflon tape. I got it all back together and now the heat gets warm but the temp gauge never goes above C by much. the heat gets warm quicker which makes me think the old rad wasnt flowing so well, and there were dark spots on it that looked like burns(maybe too hot at that part?) All in all it was easy, but I would have been done sooner if 1) it wasnt so cold and snowy, and 2) if I had known about those things before hand lol. I lost about 3/4 of a quart of trans fluid because of the leak.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 09:30 AM
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Good deal! As for the temp going up - how much or how long are you driving it? And you replaced the t-stat? Your sensor may be going or disconnected. Check that.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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the sensor, was replaced not to long ago along with the t-stat, with a 180* but I drove it today to school and it got up to the middle of the gauge before the fan came on. I dont like it getting that high, and if I put the panel/floor or defrost on (where it turns the fan on) the temp gauge will eventually drop pretty much all the way down to cool. oh and how much rad fluid do the 3.8s take? my low coolant light came on today and to fill it to the right amount it took the rest of the second gallon.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 11:26 AM
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I put about 2 gallons in (I think - or was that my F250?) and my light came on yesterday on a hard turn in the parking lot at work. When I went to look under the hood, the reservoir was almost full to the hot line where I left I filled it too. So I guess if you take a tight turn for more than 20 seconds (the parking lot has a back road that just turns and turns...) it senses low coolant because the fluid is all shoved to one side of the reservoir.

As for the gauge - last year driving in the summer heat for 40 minutes in traffic with the AC on, the sob gauge was at 3/4. Freaked me out. Now that I have the tranny cooler and the J-Mod, I am expecting it to stay at 1/2 on the dial during the worst of times in the summer heat. We will see.

Let us know how it works out..
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewishkah View Post
One more question, on the inlet pipe,it seemed like it would leak even when it was bolted down, so I put some rvt around the pipe right at the top, Is this ok? or is there something special that goes there?
Quote:
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The metal pipe going into the water pump just seals with an o-ring. If you are really concerned, just replace the o-ring and it will seal, even if it doesn't feel all that tight in there.
reviving an old thread...

this pipe on mine has been leaking for a while. i replaced the o-ring when i did the pump a while back. it was good, then developed a leak. it got to where it was 'flowing' rather than 'leaking' so i pulled it out of the water pump. well, the reason it is leaking is because the pipe has rusted thin and broken smooth off at the indention for the o-ring.

so, what i'm left with is the pipe from the o-ring down stuck in the pump, and a boggled mind on how to fix this. as you may know, i just did an engine swap so i have a 2nd engine here. i pulled it and it's the same way. the PO of the car had a sh^t-load of rtv on it. is this a viable option? can i buy a new pipe? can i just shove an o-ring on whats left and put it back in place? if i can find a NEW pipe i'll do the work to swap it out. but i dont want to pull the upper intake and possibly swap the water pump for a used pipe that will do the same thing.

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2010, 03:13 PM
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well, i seem to have it fixed. i took the pipe from the old engine with me to autozone. i found a fat o-ring that fit really snug over the part that goes in the pump. slid it on, and tightened it down with the small bolt and it looks to have done the trick. i took it around the block to get it hot, and it hasnt leaked a drop yet.

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