EZ Question on 3.8L Engine - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
Amp
Smoothmeister K
 
Amp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 37
Posts: 887
EZ Question on 3.8L Engine

How much HP is in a stock 3.8L? My friend told me it's 212, but someone from Checkers told me it's 140. Someone help me out so we can set things straight.
Also, if I truly have 212 HP, shouldn't I be able to bust em loose without the infamous neutral drop or brake stand, cuz I can't even hear a squeak from mine (5 point slow has 220HP I believe).
TIA (Thanks in advance)

Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Midwest Thundercats
Amp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 01:52 PM
13's or Mildly Broken
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Blair, Nebraska
Age: 36
Posts: 2,670
The stock 3.8L makes 140 HP unless you have a 96/97- then it's 145 I think. 89-93 SC's make 210 and 94/95 SC's make 230 HP.

-Andy "Melon"

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
1999 Crown Victoria P71 4.6
2000 Explorer 5.0
Melon is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 02:11 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,565
Joe put down 127, or somewhere in the 120's, last year at NEDT in his 97 3.8. Im pretty sure he was bone stock down to the filter when he did it.

My old 3.8 would barely do a burnout, it was so pathetic that i could actually watch the wheel start to turn and slowly speed up. When i bought my 96 4.6 it felt like a rocket ship compared to that.
Robinson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Amp
Smoothmeister K
 
Amp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 37
Posts: 887
Just got off the phone with the same friend that told me about the 3.8L having 212HP.
This is true, but not for the Ford engine. It is true for the new Chrysler engine. The new minivans have 212HP in the front with a stock 3.8L.
So now I'm even more confused. How the hell did Chrysler pull that much HP out of a 3.8? If I found a 3.8 Chrysler lying around in the junkyard 5-10 yrs from now, would it be possible to drop it into my Bird? ('96 3.8L).

Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Midwest Thundercats
Amp is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 02:58 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,565
its a completely different engine, it will not bolt up. the power output isnt particularly amazing, the ford 3.8 may very well be the lowest specific output engine ever made by ford, and probably up there as the most anemic engine of all time, along with the stock tbird 4.6
Robinson is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
Amp
Smoothmeister K
 
Amp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 37
Posts: 887
... or if you want it put bluntly, we're screwed. Oh well, worth a shot. You'd think Ford would be the masters of creating power output in engines since they invented the thing. I'll just have to save up for a 4.6 then. Thanks for your help.

Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Midwest Thundercats
Amp is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 03:34 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,921
Hey amp, I notice your from Minneapolis, check out
http://www.phrozen-neon.com/phpBB2/index.php to chat with local guys!

My 3.8L n/a is putting out 205-210hp at the flywheel, I put 165 to the ground and have the dynochart to prove it, though it is a bit worked up though oh ya, 212rwtq too (which is around [email protected] the flywheel).

GM series II 3.8L are putting out 200hp and 220tq
GM series I 3.8L were making 180hp and 210tq
OUR 3.8L is make 140hp and 215tq (145hp/220tq 96-97)
New Dodge 3.8L is making 212hp and 208tq
Ford splitport 3.8L is at 190hp/225tq RWD and 200hp/225tq FWD
there are alot of 3.8L out there
rancherlee is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 03:37 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,565
Quote:
Originally posted by rancherlee
My 3.8L n/a is putting out 205-210hp at the flywheel, I put 165 to the ground and have the dynochart to prove it, though it is a bit worked up though oh ya, 212rwtq too (which is around [email protected] the flywheel).
i was just gonna say that he wasnt too screwed, just at a bit of a disadvantage.

someone once said "everything ive accomplished ive done because someone said i couldnt."

3.8 liters is a decent amount of displacement, there is alot of power that could be made by that engine, just not in stock form. personally id rather see a 3.8 N/A reach 250 rwhp than a 4.6, just because it would be more unique. dont for a minute think that ill trade my 4.6 for a 3.8 tho.
Robinson is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 05:21 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,921
The most aniemic ford engine I can think of it the 300cid Inline Six. Mine made 110hp OVER stock with a VERY mild cam, 4bbl intake with a 450cfm holley, and a set of headers. (80% gain in HP 30% torque with less than 1000$ invested) she pulled 240hp and 320ft-lbs on an engine dyno (the 320ft-lbs was at 2000rpm and stayed flat till [email protected] where it dropped off quick) it was factory rated at 130hp and 270ft-lbs
rancherlee is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 08:40 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: McDonough, Ga.
Posts: 510
Why were the ford 3.8s so low on HP compared to GM's? Fords very first 3.8 w/fuel injection in 1989 made 140HP, by 1996 they made a whopping 145HP, 5 more HP than a 1986 3.0 litre ford.
W.Cup is offline  
post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 12:32 AM
Cougar Pilot
 
BlackCat94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Gopher State
Posts: 3,443
Unhappy What were they thinkin'?

I find it hard to believe that they would put such a low output engine in such a heavy car, in supercharged form the 3.8L is great though. Do ford 3.8L's have a gas mileage advantage over a similar GM engine? Or did they just make them weak for our enjoyment? But if you wanna think ultimate poor hp, compared to displacement, think '82 Cougar with a 5.0L carb. V-8....115hp. And if I remember correctly Ford didn't make much more than 140hp out of a 460c.i.d. V-8 back in the mid 70's. I believe I seen that on www.coolcats.net

TCCoA, there's no better way.
BlackCat94 - The Revolution.
1994 XR7 - Intake Tube, LMAF, March Underdrive Pulleys, J-Modded '00 Mustang Trans, Marauder T/C,
TruBendz 2.5" SS True Duals, Apten Flip Chip, FRPP 4.10s & Trac Lock, etc.

[email protected] with 3.27 gears
BlackCat94 is offline  
post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 08:19 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,921
Ford has almost ALWAYS had BAD exhaust ports in there heads. Also the Ford 3.8L has always had a torque advantage over others, and ALOT more on the bottem end, the others don't see there rated torque till 3500-4000rpm, ours is down low, around 2500rpm. My dyno chart is shaped just like a Stock Series II GM except I'm making more power, its Kinda "peaky" where the torque curvew looks like a hill instead of being flat.
rancherlee is offline  
post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 08:30 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,565
rancher, i think i speak for all of us when i say, i wanna see what youve done to your 3.8... i remember seeing it a while ago but i cant quite remember. those are truly respectable numbers to the wheels for a 3.8
Robinson is offline  
post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
Amp
Smoothmeister K
 
Amp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 37
Posts: 887
Does Ford's habbit of putting push-rods in our engines have anything to do with getting low power outputs? I can't complain about my engine just yet, because at least my tranny doesn't break down as often as the competition. Has Ford ever put overhead cams in their engines?
BTW, RancherLee, this is SoopaDrive, I've already joined your MN12 Upper Midwest forum. Thanks

Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Midwest Thundercats
Amp is offline  
post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 10:28 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,565
i dont think its just because they are pushrods, ford has been using higher output pushrods for a long time, but with the weight of the bird and the price level they wanted the "economic" model to be at, they couldnt very well put a higher output engine in it while remaining economical.
Robinson is offline  
post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 06:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 75
Yea, it has nothing to do with being a push-rod, the LS1 Camaro makes 315hp on a push-rod engine.
3.8_Special is offline  
post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 06:48 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 47
Hey look at it this way, ford got 200 HP out of a 3.8 by bolting on stock SC heads and redesigning a Dual port style Mini Cobra intake for the new mustang 3.8's I'd say thats not so bad for the ole 3.8... too bad it'd be a project in itself just to get that set up to work in the tbirds..



Jim
Cheetah is offline  
post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-16-2002, 10:18 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: McDonough, Ga.
Posts: 510
The Vette's Z06 pushrod 16valve V8 makes 405HP and alot of torque too!
W.Cup is offline  
post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 07:28 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,921
the mods that effect my hp and torque are.
-Fulley ported/polished heads with stock valves and stiffer springs
-Mild camshaft with 205/216 @ .050 and .477/.494 lift
-ASP underdrive crank pulley
-Ported upper and lower intakes and halfshafted stock throttle body (did these myslf)
-Custom 2.25" in single 3" exhaust with flowmaster 50 dual in single out inplace of the resonator, NO CATS (did this myself)
-Full Synthetic Drive train fluids (Engine, Tranny, and Rear differential)
-Custom cold air Intake

Jerry told me I was right at where stock V8's dyno at for RWHP and about 20ft-lbs short on the torque (vortech SC will take care of that next year)
I've gone from a [email protected] MPH Average to a [email protected] Average on My G-tech the car is still a dog of the line but once she gets to 3000rpm she goes! 3000rpm stall converter is my next mod.
rancherlee is offline  
post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Amp
Smoothmeister K
 
Amp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Age: 37
Posts: 887
Another question then... is it possible to put SOHC, DOHC or twin turbo on a stock Ford 3.8L? What about a 4.6? 5.0? (I own a '96 Bird 3.8)

Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Midwest Thundercats
Amp is offline  
post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2002, 04:16 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 47
Talking

Well lets Kill the obvious, your not going to put OHC or DOHC on the Ford 3.8 Pushrod Block... There are Turbo Kits availible for the 3.8 Mustang, some as sick as a twin turbo putting out som 400+ HP, not I seriously doubt the bottom end would hold up, you could manage to salvage 3.8 SC bottom end with the forged crank and rods.... It'd probubly hold up to the turbo, but obvioulsy not as long as being left alone... unless it was a low PSI kit 14 or less......

2nd... Welp with the right amout of money you could drop in a full blooded 429 CJ... anything's possible... it's just time , effort and wallet...

Jim
Cheetah is offline  
post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-25-2002, 01:09 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,447
how hard would it be to put on a split port intake. will SC headers and heads work as well? i have a 1990 3.8 n/a.... i plan on putting on U/D pullies, porting polishing whatever intake and headers i have, 70mm tb, elec fan, im finishing my cold air induction tomorrow prolly, and ill do a b&m shift kit since i got that AOD, but would it work cause i have Jasper re-man, it should work i think. eventually... 8.8 w/ 3:23s track-lok... well.. this will be the v6 rocket, illg et a v-8 (5.0) bird eventually to sink money into. oh, i also plan on getting a tune once a lot of things are done to it.. -greg
glowing escape is offline  
post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-10-2002, 11:46 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
I would have to say the slowest ford car would be their first. 5 wapping hp baby, what a beast!
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-15-2002, 12:13 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3
Ford 3.8L's

Quote:
Originally posted by Melon
The stock 3.8L makes 140 HP unless you have a 96/97- then it's 145 I think. 89-93 SC's make 210 and 94/95 SC's make 230 HP.

-Andy "Melon"
The thing that I think annoys me the most is that the Windstars make so many more horses off the same size engine than we do. The 97 T-Bird makes 145 hp, the 94 makes 140, and the same year Windstar MINIVAN makes 200! I can't imagine that Ford would make two seperate blocks for our cars, and if the cylinders or the heads were different then the displacement would be different too, right? Where is all this extra HP coming from? It could only be the intake, exhaust or the camshaft, right? Anything else would throw off the displacement, and it's not turbocharged or supercharged.

I think it's more sinister than just economy. I think it's this - the 4.6L Engine is rated at 205 hp, but if the stock v6 made 200, then who would pay a couple thousand more for the V8? So they dumbed down the v6 enough to make 60 extra ponies look attractive, but the windstar doesn't come in a v8, so they left that one full blown. I didn't see anything about the Windstar being OHC, but I guess that's possible.

If it's the same block, then it would stand to reason that you could just take the stock intake, cam, etc from the Windstar, and make 200 hp pretty cheap and easy. Why wouldn't this work?

Josh C -
97 Ford Thunderbird LX 3.8L
Richter is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome