Crazy hair-brain ideas - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
Crazy hair-brain ideas

I was thinking about 3.8l single port intake options , meaning either spend a lot of $$$ or come up with something crazy. So I got this hair-brain idea. Not thinking of using this Trick flow 4.6l plenum but making something similar to it. Any thought input or just a waste of time?

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Humble MN12 Genius
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Posts: 16,654
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
A runnerless intake? That's hair brained alright

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 06:28 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,139
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhiland32 View Post
Any thought input or just a waste of time?

Waste of time and money.
dDUBb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2013, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
Yep I agree it was one of those bath room brain storm moments,lol. I'm most likely going to get another plenum and shorten the runners 1.5" and port match it and save a lot of money by not going with Morana Or I had had a thought of converting a CFI intake to a 4.6l throttle body w/ elbow and port matching it that would be pretty easy especially since the injectors are in the head . Just planning ahead for the 4.2l and staying single port.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1

Last edited by jhiland32; 06-05-2013 at 08:55 PM.
jhiland32 is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 10:10 AM
Seasoned PostWhore

Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 37
Posts: 7,449
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
Aside from the lack of runners that will kill what little torque you have, the SC intake is not a good flowing design and will be restrictive at the top end as well. It was basically designed to be able to bolt the supercharger to it and fit everything under a stock hood, and flow/performance was not even really a consideration.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 01:04 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
CDsDontBurn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Banning, CA
Age: 35
Posts: 2,071
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Aside from the lack of runners that will kill what little torque you have, the SC intake is not a good flowing design and will be restrictive at the top end as well. It was basically designed to be able to bolt the supercharger to it and fit everything under a stock hood, and flow/performance was not even really a consideration.
If the hood is swapped out with a cowl type hood, are there aftermarket intake runners that would offer better performance for the 3.8?

'97 Bird, "Pearl": L/R 2.5in Magnaflow Hi-Flow CATs | PI Intake & PI Cams | Suspension Rebuild

'13 Taurus, "The Bull": 3.5L Goodness

'00 2dr v6 Accord, "Dirty Girl": Magnaflow Hi-Flow CAT | Greddy SP2 CAT-Back | Eibach ProKit springs | Eibach F/R Sway Bars | KYB-GR2 struts
CDsDontBurn is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 01:52 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 41
Posts: 2,627
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn View Post
If the hood is swapped out with a cowl type hood, are there aftermarket intake runners that would offer better performance for the 3.8?
96-98 Windstar Intake! Of course, that would require splitport lower intake and heads.


You could also fabricate something by welding vertical pipes to your lower intake manifold, adding flutes to the end, and building a box around it for the throttle body to mount. Some lemons folks have done that using an ammo can.
I thought about such an idea for the 3.8 and then the buzz wore off.


-g

PS. I'm not sure why spending all the effort on a singleport setup is a good idea of you are planning to move to a 4.2L, Jhiland. After all, most 4.2L setups are splitport.
That being said, I'll be happy to sell you a singleport 3.8L upper intake and/or SC lower intake manifold if you want to chop/weld something up. Who am I to stand in the way of your projects?

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
I'm staying single port for this build split port is good, but not in my plans. Morana offers a shorten version of the stock plenum for $500.00 so I'm just going to cut, polish ,and tig my own.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 03:59 PM
5th Gear Poster
 
winkysrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Waynesville ohio
Posts: 384
Send a message via AIM to winkysrides
should work well with 6 turbos

Quote:
  • "Chuck Norris built my shortblock. It runs on the tears of small children and makes 10,000 hp. He said it's his 'street version' "
wheel hoppin and poppin!
91 Thunderbird sport 357W 5speed
88 stripped out 5.0 C4 and 4:56 gears in a 9in Ford


winkysrides is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
lol

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 08:26 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Roadrunnner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Missouri
Age: 40
Posts: 2,073
But why? Whats the outcome supposed to be, just different? Im all about different but it sounds like your going out of your way. $500 to cut up a manifold for a 3.8 is nuts. Wish you all the luck.

Will

The Texas Green Bird (An undeveloped work of art.)
92 Thunderbird Sport 5.0: Sold

91 gt, 5.0 73mm turbo, 5spd, 373s, and much more
Roadrunnner is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-06-2013, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
I'm not paying $500 to do anything. That what Morana gets. I'm doing it my self. Shortening the runners on the 3.8 plenum improves mid- range torque and respond something a 3.8 lacks anyway this would be for my 4.2 build anyway.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 09:19 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 41
Posts: 2,627
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhiland32 View Post
I'm not paying $500 to do anything. That what Morana gets. I'm doing it my self. Shortening the runners on the 3.8 plenum improves mid- range torque and respond something a 3.8 lacks anyway this would be for my 4.2 build anyway.
Again, "but why"?
The reason all of us are confused is because there seems to be a disconnect here. Let's look at the facts

* From all I read, all the singleport modifications were made before splitport heads/intake manifolds emerged on the market. SP heads flow something like 2x better than their singleport ancestors.

* Since it's commonly known that 14# injectors are pretty well maxed out with a singleport 3.8L engine (do the math), you'll need upgraded injectors with the 4.2L. I'm not sure how much viable "carry-over" you are planning in your eventual migration to the 4.2L block.

* If the concern is cost, I know for a fact that splitport heads can be picked up for <$100 a pair along with the matching lower/upper intake manifolds.

* A fancy singleport upper intake will only be compatible with a singleport lower itnake and heads.

If you are planning to go with a 4.2L shortblock, the natural choice would be a splitport heads/intake setup.

The only reason to consider singleport heads would be if you were planning on making a 4.2L SC setup using the stock SC intake manifolds. While that might be the cheapest route to a 4.2L SC setup, the flow capabilities of the SP heads/intake make a vortech SC setup much higher performing (at least, until your block blows up because you didn't start with a SC block). In this scenario, you could reuse your stock singleport heads but your fancy shortened singleport intake will be just a large paperweight.

Bottom Line:
* If you have the skills and/or determination to cut, shorten, polish, and re-tig a singleport upper intake, you are better off investing the similar effort in a splitport upper intake. You'll get far more performance going that direction.

The only conceivable reason I could see to invest the time/effort in doing a cut and weld job on your existing 3.8L manifold would be for practice. Of course, if you @#[email protected]#$ up, how are you going to drive to work? Now, if you are planning to buy a spare intake for practice, why not buy a spare splitport upper intake instead of a singleport one?


PS. A good correlary to this situation I've seen recently is with 5.0L heads. Unless you are restricted by some racing series rules, there is no reason to invest significant labor (beyond a simple polish/gasket match job) on iron 5.0 heads anymore now that cheap, high performance aluminum castings are available. It's the march of technology....


-g

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
I'm not building a super hot rod with a V6 just a little more power. When I go to the 4.2 I will be upgrading to 19# injectors, and 3.8 plenums are a dime a dozen. I'll most likely just build a stock 4.2 with the single port heads and stock intake.
The hole hair brain thing was just a simple little idea that I didn't think would work anyway.
Yes the split-port is a thought but not what I want to build. If I was going for high HP I would get a 4.6 2v Bird/Coug or slip in a 4v.
Heres something you didn't think about the fastest V6 lately belongs to Matt Neuharth of Lebanon ,TN. His SN95 went [email protected] mph with a stock 4.2 block with forged internals and ....single port heads... tons of boost to make 600 RWHP. (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...6/viewall.html).
I'm not trying or wanting to build anything like this. My 3.8 has about 145-150 hp if I can get a 4.2 up to 190-200 hp I would be pleased. And yes I know how to tig.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 12:40 PM
Seasoned PostWhore

Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 37
Posts: 7,449
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhiland32 View Post
My 3.8 has about 145-150 hp if I can get a 4.2 up to 190-200 hp I would be pleased. And yes I know how to tig.
Just an FYI, a bone stock split-port 3.8 is rated at 190hp, and a bone stock split-port 4.2 is rated between 202-210 depending on the year. I'm all for trying different paths to more horsepower, but from what you said your horsepower goals are, that really is the cheapest and easiest way. Buy a complete 4.2 split port motor, dont even remove the lower intake manifold, it will bolt right in place and you will need to extend some wires and hoses and get a tune, and you are done. No cutting or tig welding, no porting, no custom parts, no adapting different plenums or throttle bodies, just bolt it in and go.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 12:55 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,744
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
Just an FYI, a bone stock split-port 3.8 is rated at 190hp, and a bone stock split-port 4.2 is rated between 202-210 depending on the year. I'm all for trying different paths to more horsepower, but from what you said your horsepower goals are, that really is the cheapest and easiest way. Buy a complete 4.2 split port motor, dont even remove the lower intake manifold, it will bolt right in place and you will need to extend some wires and hoses and get a tune, and you are done. No cutting or tig welding, no porting, no custom parts, no adapting different plenums or throttle bodies, just bolt it in and go.
From my research, you would need a cowl hood (or cut-out) at the very least with the 4.2 upper. But I agree with what you're saying. Maybe OP just wants to be different and use his fab skills.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
jco1385 is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
Yep I know I was trying to avoid dealing with the IMRC's.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 01:02 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,744
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhiland32 View Post
Yep I know I was trying to avoid dealing with the IMRC's.
Just delete them and be done. I'm going to use an RPM switch.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
jco1385 is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 01:11 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 41
Posts: 2,627
Garage
I had an lower intake with the IMRCs already deleted but that went to the scrap pile already b/c noone expressed an interest here. Oh well. The RPM switch is really quite simple to implement if you want to keep the IMRCs.

I agree that if your stated goal is a 200HP V6, just buy a 4.2L engine as a long block.
It comes with all the bits you'll need.

Also, if hood clearance is a concern, just swap out the 4.2L upper intake with a mustang one. Problem solved.


-g

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

24 Hours of Lemons 2017 Sear Pointless Organizer's Choice
2018 Upgrade: does your TBIRD make Fritos? Mine does
http://goo.gl/csaet4
S4gunn is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-07-2013, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
jhiland32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Age: 43
Posts: 1,181
Thinks for the input. I have been doing a lot of reading on this . I just may go split port and use a rpm switch. I was think that 3500 rpms may be the best setting for the switch.

Jason H.
Mods:
Exterior- Paint, grill, trim, SHO wheels
Power train- 4.6 cat back w/ muffler delete 2"I.D. tips , Taylor Pro Series plug wires, intake silencer delete

Photographs http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/jh...?sort=4&page=1
jhiland32 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome