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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Knock sensor

Where is the knock sensor located on my 91 3.8?

"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Jesus
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 06:08 PM
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You don't have one. The only MN12s that had one were the SCs.

-Brandon
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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So what sensors tell the computer to change the timing then?

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 07:59 PM
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On my 97 (will be different but most likely very similar on yours) timing is controlled by volumetric efficiency (MAF sensor/RPM relationship) and RPM. Essentially - at x RPM, command y degrees of spark while at z load. There are modifiers to add or subtract timing based on coolant temperature, intake air temperature, open/closed loop (commanded A:F ratio), and EGR flow. There are also functions to reduce or limit timing under certain conditions, e.g. throttle tip in or idle.

All the sensors involved would include MAF, CKPS, IAT, ECT, TPS, DPFE and VSS.

Primarily the PCM commands timing based on the lowest value found in a number of tables with engine load on one axis and engine RPM on the other axis, after applying modifiers for operating conditions (EGR, Temps).

Again - this is the EEC-V method. I don't know how much applies to the EEC-IV.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by theterminator93; 07-15-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Great, thanks for the info. Looks like I need to start testing more sensors than I thought. My timing isnt moving.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 12:22 AM
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There's one thing to check FIRST - check the SPOUT connector. If it opens up (or if the plug is missing), you'll be fixed at 10* BTDC.

RwP

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
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ok, thanks.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Spout is good.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 07:32 PM
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What do you get if you measure for voltage across the connector?

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
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07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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1.91 KOEO, and with engine running,it's all over the map. 7 volts and down.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 08:25 PM
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Sounds off to me, it should be a clean signal. Do you have the EVTM? Time to do some pinpoint tests for a short.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
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What is an EVTM? I have a DVM with piercing probes.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 05:28 AM
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Ford-Th...item35bbd5f719

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Brandon. Bought it and will get it next week.

Curt.

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