3.8l engine EEC-IV quesiton - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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3.8l engine EEC-IV quesiton

Did the 1994 Ford 3.8l engine EVER come with NON- EEC-IV?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 08:20 PM
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Here is what is going on. I ordered a set of wires, rotor and cap from RockAuto, whom I use a lot. I always only look at items listed under the specific vehical I am working on. When I log in, I have a list of cars I work on and select the car I want. I selected the 94 Cougar. Turns out the only two items they had listed for a wire/cap/rotor set were both NON EEC-IV items. I did not notice at the time because all items listed under a 1994 Mercury Cougar 3.8l engine should be for that engine and nothing else.

I need to return the set cause the rotor does not fit the distributor, the screws are too short and it does not fit tight.

RockAuto says it is my fault for picking this item.

I told them it is their fault for listing a non EC-IV item under and engine parts listing of an engine that no longer used non EEC-IV. I told them if they insist on making me pay for shipping, I want the name of a manger and how dare they say "the customer is wrong"! Wow... whatever happened to the customer is always right?

That is my story of why I asked about a non EEC-IV engine in 1994.

Thanks all.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 08:29 AM
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I had this same issue with a set of wires from them. I bought them for a 1996 3.8L and they sent me a set for a distributor which was never in a 1996. They wanted me to pay shipping but I refused. I showed them Ford literature to show their mistake and they still said I was wrong. They ended up letting me keep the set and refunding the cost of them. We went back and forth over 20 emails for 3 days and they still didn't update their catalog.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Wow. Thanks for sharing that. That gives me the ammo to fight with when it comes down to it.

How long ago was that JC?

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 200k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:03 AM
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They were all EEC-IV, but the 94/95 3.8 MN12s with Cali emissions got a DIS setup, and the ones with federal emissions still had a distributor. The 3.8 went to EEC-V in 96, and those were only available with DIS, no more distributor.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
They were all EEC-IV, but the 94/95 3.8 MN12s with Cali emissions got a DIS setup, and the ones with federal emissions still had a distributor. The 3.8 went to EEC-V in 96, and those were only available with DIS, no more distributor.
Excellent, thank you Mike for the update.

I feel a battle coming on!

What ever happened to "the customer is always right" attitude?

Thanks again all for the replies.

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 200k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

I've had too many other cars to mention...
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white lincoln View Post
Wow. Thanks for sharing that. That gives me the ammo to fight with when it comes down to it.

How long ago was that JC?
That was February of last year. I sent my first email about the issue on Feb 3rd and the refund was issued on the 6th. The guy's name was Ralph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
They were all EEC-IV, but the 94/95 3.8 MN12s with Cali emissions got a DIS setup, and the ones with federal emissions still had a distributor. The 3.8 went to EEC-V in 96, and those were only available with DIS, no more distributor.
This was the point I was trying to make with them. I even scanned my Ford service manuals to show there was a distributor in 94 and none in 96. After I sent those scans along with a picture of the emissions sticker from the rad support, this was the response:

Quote:
We looked further into this and, candidly, we're a bit mystified about both the information in the service manual and the data Ford is providing - both to the aftermarket manufacturers and to their own dealer network.

1996 would have been the first year of OBD-II emission standards, so it would have been logical for Ford to have gone to a distributorless ignition system in all vehicles. At first, I though that might have been the case. But we located a discontinued Ford part number E8DZ12127A listed by Ford dealers as the distributor for the non-supercharged Thunderbird 3.8 for 1996 - though it's discontinued. That is consistent with the data that we have for the part ordered, as well as those of other manufacturers we list online, including Airtex and Bosch.

Our best guess is that there was some Ford federal emissions production in the early part of the 1996 model year that used a distributor, and that they changed over to DIS only when the OBD-II standards technically became effective, at the beginning of the calendar year. (That's only a guess.)

Either way, though, it would have helped if we'd made the application information on the plug wires more clear, and we don't want to put you to further inconvenience and expense over these - so we're just going to issue a refund for them, and for their share of the shipping charges on the order. You will not need to return them. Once you receive confirmation from us in your email that the refund has been processed to the VISA card used on the order, you can simply dispose of the wires.
They still list "exc Calif" parts for the 96 and 97 models.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Good ammo to use. I have yet to hear from them. My point to them was that I am trusting them to know what parts work on my car and not have to hassel with reading each part carefully to ensure it will fit my car. I would expect in this day and age that when I look under the listing of all parts for my car, there should be no guess work as to IF it will work on my car.

Even Amazon has a software package that checks the part against your make and model to ensure you don't buy the wrong part. I would suspect if the part did come up wrong, they would not hassle you about it and just refund you your money.

And it is not about who is right or wrong on this, it is the principle that if I buy a part listed for my car, it should work. there should be no "but you did not read the fine print".
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 12:23 PM
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They should get it right ... but they don't always.

I have seen errors in RockAuto listings in the past, especially for limited interest cars. I have made it a habit to independently verify the exact part numbers whenever possible, before I order anything from them.

Amazon gets stuff wrong too, I am sure.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Mazza View Post
They should get it right ... but they don't always.

I have seen errors in RockAuto listings in the past, especially for limited interest cars. I have made it a habit to independently verify the exact part numbers whenever possible, before I order anything from them.

Amazon gets stuff wrong too, I am sure.
Correct. And from now on, I will DOUBLE check from now on. How sad.

Thanks S_Man.

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1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

I've had too many other cars to mention...
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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The manager of RockAuto called me today. She would not budge. She said that the company that sells the product said emphatically that non EEC-VI was used on the 94 so the part is in the correct location.

So I can return it for the shipping charge of $5. Or I can crap in a bag and send it in a box to them for $5. Which would you do....

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1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 06:16 AM
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I don't understand where the eec IV hangup is. Literally every ford from the mid-80's until OBD2 was eec-IV. OBD2 coincided with the eec-v computers. There simply did not exist any 3.8 powered 94/95 tbird or cougar that did not have an eec-IV processor.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
I don't understand where the eec IV hangup is. Literally every ford from the mid-80's until OBD2 was eec-IV. OBD2 coincided with the eec-v computers. There simply did not exist any 3.8 powered 94/95 tbird or cougar that did not have an eec-IV processor.
Exactly Mike.

But she insisted that the manufactor said Non-EEC VI was on that year, so they are in the right to post it under that cars year, make and model. No matter that they are wrong. I would have to call the manufactor to call RockAuto to tell them they are wrong to get my $6 back.

Worth the time and effort?

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 200k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 01:18 PM
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This is exactly why I showed the Ford literature to them. The aftermarket company can't argue against the vehicle manufacturer. I'm actually surprised they are standing so hard on this. I've never had an issue getting things straightened out, even in the above case.

It's probably not worth the effort for $6. What does the correct part cost? FWIW, I always compare Rockauto versus Advance Auto. Advance has some good coupon codes for online purchases, and their speedperks program is a 'stackable' discount. I've gotten a lot of stuff cheaper than Rockauto this way.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
I always compare Rockauto versus Advance Auto. Advance has some good coupon codes for online purchases, and their speedperks program is a 'stackable' discount. I've gotten a lot of stuff cheaper than Rockauto this way.
Good info! Thanks for mentioning Advance Auto. I will look into them as well next time.

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 200k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - 150k and still going.

I've had too many other cars to mention...
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