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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Not starting

Engine was rebuilt stock minus a slightly different cam. However everything is plugged up, grounds are grounded, no vacuum leaks, and fuel pressure. Engine has some trouble turning over when the coil pack is plugged in, but cranks easy when it's not plugged in. There is an occasional backfire when trying to start. I read in a past "no start" post, someone replaced a starter because it was drawing too much.

Hopefully I won't need to take the engine apart to find the problem. I've never done this before, so any advice and information is helpful.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 05:17 PM
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Your distributor is not timed correctly, possibly 180 degrees out.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't think that would matter on the cam synchro as long as it was between 30
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 10:26 PM
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The SC engine takes a "guess" on cam timing, but yes I have seen cam synchros cause a no start condition.

Backfires sounds like its getting gas, if it has gas the injectors are pulsing and you have CKP signal.

The slow cranking while the coil pack is plugged in sounds funny though .. a bad starter wouldnt cause this - it would have something to do ith the coil pack or the EDIS module / ignition system. Check for spark while cranking.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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I have two coil packs. One was with the car. The other was off of a mustang(not that it matters). As for the DIS and cam synchro, what can be done?
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_aka_Dale View Post
I have two coil packs. One was with the car. The other was off of a mustang(not that it matters). As for the DIS and cam synchro, what can be done?
Lots of testing and diagnostics. Process of elimination. Having a DVOM or a graphing multimeter with an EVTM helps a lot.

Assuming you have good compression on a freshly rebuilt engine, timing chain was installed correctly, and CMP is within manufacturers range.

CMP - Ive had "bad ones" that threw a check engine light but worked perfectly fine. Typically the engine will fire, but it may not with a bad one. Try un-plugging it and see if it starts.

Check for spark - not necessarily pulling the engine plug, but with a spare wire / plug.

Check coil pack, power / ground, check for signal from PCM, check resistance/continuity in coil pairs.

DIs module - may be able to bench test at AUtozone, etc, check for signals, etc ..

Really hard to diagnose a no start condition over the internet. Common thought is that you need air/spark/fuel, but there are two more, compresion and timing. In this case, I am leaning towards the spark/timing its the most likely - check for spark, if no spark, trace it back through the components. The voltage drop with the coil pack plugged in - thats where id start looking into electrical wiring / components, its not exactly normal to do what youve described.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:32 AM
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I'm thinking timing as well. What process did you use to align the syncro to the engine? The timing gears had the marks lined up? Is this a Super Coupe?

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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For the synchro, I just eyeballed it. Timing marks were lined up as well. Unless there are marks for timing on the synchro.. This is turning out to be a real peach.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 10:21 AM
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THIS thread may help you. The engine needs to be TDC compression and use the correct 'tool' to position the synchro when installing.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you. This is what I get for trying to eyeball stuff. I'll get that tool and give an update.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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After wire brushing the balancer, I found the timing marks. When the synchro tool is used, do you adjust the synchro to match the degrees on the balancer?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-29-2016, 07:19 AM
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The tool is just a simple plastic cap that goes on in place of the sensor and has a slot that will keep the synchro rotated to the correct position in the window of the housing. Get the engine to 0 degrees TDC compression, install the tool (yellow one from the kit on a 96) and then drop the synchro assembly in the timing cover.

The procedure from the factory service manual is in the thread I linked to.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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The shop manual says to set it to 26 ATDC
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 07:37 AM
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I know. And the 1997 manual says 0 TDC and they are the same parts. I did the steps above on my 96 and it fired off first try. That's what the linked thread is about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
As an update... I went ahead and tried this with it at 0 as shown in the second picture and I used the yellow tool from THIS set. She fired right up on the first try.
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After looking at the literature again, the 96 says use tool T96P-12200-A @ 26 ATDC where the 97 is T96T-12200-A @ 0.

As far as I know, the 96 and 97 use the same synchro/balancer/coil/etc so I'm not sure why the book has different numbers.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Alrighty. Seems easy enough.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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No dice. I will try the 26 next. I'm guessing that is why that notch is in the balancer
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 10:09 AM
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Are you using the alignment tool? Is your firing order correct?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2012-07-08_024920_ford_firing_order_pic.jpg (27.3 KB, 16 views)

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, I have the tool and firing order is correct. Would sour, regular unleaded gas be an issue?
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 11:08 AM
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Have you tried to troubleshoot why the voltage drops with the coil plugged in? That is a strange issue if true. I'd also look at the crank sensor and wiring. You are sure you are on the compression stroke, correct? I'd think that even old gas would have enough bang left in it to get it running.

If this is an SC, the guys on SCCoA know these things very well and may be a better resource for SC specific info.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't have it on the compression stroke. Re did the synchro and it fired up. Thanks for the help
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