89 SC - When is a fuel pump REALLY dead? - TCCoA Forums
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By dDUBb
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
89 SC - When is a fuel pump REALLY dead?

OK, I’m running out of ideas and I wanted to ping the group for a fresh perspective.
On my '89 SC I’ve been trying to isolate a fuel delivery issue that started out with all the classic symptoms of a faulty FPR and/or fuel filter. In peeling this onion as described below, I must add that the fuel pump was heard to be spinning up and stopping, presumably reaching its working pressure then relaxing.

“Hey, it’s only 3 bolts to pull the blower outta the way to get to the fuel rail, dude. Piece o’ cake.” I replaced the FPR and added an aftermarket pressure gauge. Along the way I ditched the EGR and others helped me solve a PCV/vacuum line reconnect mystery.
I got it all buttoned up and turned on the ignition to check for pressure and leaks. The fuel pump spins up like it’s happy – no leaks but, duh, NO PRESSURE in the rail either.
Scheiße. It’s gotta be the fuel filter (DO NOT ASK THE OBVIOUS QUESTION), right? OK, I remove the fuel filter and notice that just a tiny bit of fuel dribbles from the fuel lines. Hmmmm. An attempt to blow through the filter in the direction results only in my cheeks puffing out – NOTHING is gonna get through this filter! I think I’ve nailed the problem.
A new filter goes on but I connect only the input coming from the fuel pump. Wait for it… Being real clever I hook up a short piece of hose to the guzoutta end of the filter and direct it into a drain pan.
I crawl behind the wheel and turn the key to energize the fuel pump. It whirs away happily and then stops like it has “seen” a pressure head. I check the drain pain: no fuel, nothing, nada; not even a drip.

I’m running out of trees to run into in this forest of confusion.

Before crawling back under the car and ripping out the fuel tank (yes, there’s been fuel in it throughout this fiasco) to get to the pump, can somebody tell me what I may have missed? WHY is the fuel pump acting likes its happy when it clearly is NOT?

Thanks in advance for any clues.
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 07:19 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
If it was running fine before, I would rule out a kinked fuel line. Just because you can "hear" the fuel pump doesn't mean it is pumping fuel. Sounds like you need to drop the tank and replace the pump. The relay only primes the pump for a few seconds when you turn the key to the run position, which is obviously doing nothing to deliver fuel.
dDUBb is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 06:44 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
Curious: then under what RUNNING condition does the pump actually begin pushing fuel out to sustain an actual working pressure in the system?

The '89 shop manual (pg. 24-35-5) has words like this: "Turn ignition switch from OFF to ON position for three seconds. Turn ignition switch for three seconds repeatedly (5 to 10 times) until pressure gauge shows at least ... " I tried all that and got zip so I'm thinking, yup, the pump is kaput.
MDW
When the engine is running, the fuel pump will run constantly. The pump only needs to "prime" the system when the key is turned to the Run position to make sure fuel pressure is able to Start the engine.

The Fuel pump has an internal check valve, so as long as that is good ( they do go bad ), it wont need to prime more than once to get up to the standard 35 PSI at the rail. Otherwise it may drain back and take a few "primes" to get up to the desired rail pressure.

The Fuel Pressure Regulator on this return style system sends excess fuel back to the tank - the vacuum line on the regulator will vary flow based on engine operating conditions. Less fuel is needed at higher vacuum ( idle ) .. and in supercharged applications, this line can be pressurized to increase fuel pressure under boost.

So that being said, as long as your vacuum lines are correct, the system should operate just fine as long as the fuel pump is able to deliver to the rail - in your case, you have verified that no fuel is being delivered at all when the fuel filter is disconnected. Fuel filters don't tend to go bad nearly as often as pumps are known to be the most common source of failure in the fuel system.
dDUBb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 06:03 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
Interesting. According to the receipts I inherited with the vehicle, my T'ird supposedly has an aftermarket (high volume) fuel pump and I've no idea how their failure rate stacks up vis a vis those of an OEM pump. Hell, my '02 Windstar has nearly 200K on the odo' and nothing on it has outright failed yet. LOL Regardless, we'll certainly know one way or another about the T'ird fuel pump in a few days.
Again, thanks for your insight; much appreciated.
MDW
The Tbird OEM is a Walbro pump, they tend to last well over 100k miles .. anything besides that I cant really say. Ive had Chevy AC delco pumps fail with less than 50k on them.
dDUBb is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 05:28 PM
PostWhore
 
white lincoln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
Send a message via MSN to white lincoln
In my 88 Mark VII, it would start stuttering going up a steep hill. When I pulled the pump out, I found out the A_hole mechanic that worked on it (before I bought it) had put a mustang fuel pump in the Mark. It is shorter cause the Mustang has a smaller tank. Needless to say, I put the new fuel pump in and never had any issues after that. I wrote the Auto shop that did the previous install with some stinging words like "how could a professional mechanic put in the wrong pump???" and some other colorful explicits. Seriously... "Oh, a Mark VII is just a mustang... same parts..." Look up the parts first! DA.


BTW: When I did the replacement, I did the "go in through the trunk floor" method to get the pump replaced. Worked real well for me.


I am wondering if part of my problem with power in my Cougar is the fuel pump. It is 20+ years old and 150k. Pressure is at 35, starts right up, you can hear the pump relay kick in and the pump run when you turn the key on. Fuel filter is not that old... just every now and then the car just is dragging its arse when you need power to dodge an oncoming semi...

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 180k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - still going....
1988 Lincoln Mark VII LSC - SOLD!
I've had too many other cars to mention...
white lincoln is offline  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by white lincoln View Post
...
BTW: When I did the replacement, I did the "go in through the trunk floor" method to get the pump replaced. Worked real well for me.
Really.
I don't have a side lift rack at my disposal and my 4 jack stands won't elevate the car enough. And actually draining what little fuel remains (way less than 1/4 tank) is not something I'm comfortable doing either. Together with your comment and the photo(s) in this thread, I've got some actual motivation now. I have no problem sacrificing some more Dremel cutoff wheels - hey, just ask the EGR stuff that I ditched.
And the ability to bypass the 3 second timer, by applying an external 12V source to the fuel pump after it's installed to seriously pressurize the fuel rail is also appealing.
Thanks for your post, it was really helpful, much appreciated.
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 10:21 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,928
Garage
There's a 4" vertical difference available in the mount for the fuel pump; the fuel gage is going to be different unless you do it yourself and are fucking anal about putting it in the same spot.

The stock pumps were made by walbro, and I just put in 255lph pumps when they go bad; 1 per car, so far, lol.

I have yet to hit the same spot on the gage, even following the manual; none of them are the same, so it's not systemic error, as the errors should be the same, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 11:34 PM
PostWhore
 
white lincoln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
Send a message via MSN to white lincoln
Here is the link to the process I used to remove / replace the fuel pump on my Mark VII:

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/doc...ccessCover.pdf

I did my cut out a bit different in that I cut out where the fuel line connectors are to make it easier to disconnect / connect the fuel lines.

BTW: The DA mechanic put a mustang filter on the pump, not a mustang pump. I replaced the pump / filter anyway.

I have dropped the tank on my Cougar several times so I will probably change the pump "by the book".

Hope the article helps shed some light on replacing the pump from the trunk floor.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVC-022S.JPG (45.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-035S.JPG (31.3 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-043S.JPG (26.6 KB, 1 views)

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 180k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - still going....
1988 Lincoln Mark VII LSC - SOLD!
I've had too many other cars to mention...
white lincoln is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by white lincoln View Post
Here is the link to the process I used to remove / replace the fuel pump on my Mark VII:
...snip/whack...
I have dropped the tank on my Cougar several times so I will probably change the pump "by the book".
- The how-to is helpful wrt ways and methods but the cutout dimensions obviously are not directly transferable to a 'Bird/Cougar. I'll try to approximate that on my own knowing how close the fuel lines are to the sheet metal above.
---------
OK so after all of this you're telling me you go after the Cougar's fuel tank the old fashioned way. Why is that?
No worries, MDW.
Air2Mud is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 09:04 AM
PostWhore
 
white lincoln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
Send a message via MSN to white lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
- The how-to is helpful wrt ways and methods but the cutout dimensions obviously are not directly transferable to a 'Bird/Cougar. I'll try to approximate that on my own knowing how close the fuel lines are to the sheet metal above.
---------
OK so after all of this you're telling me you go after the Cougar's fuel tank the old fashioned way. Why is that?
No worries, MDW.
No, of course not, just a general idea of the process.

Maybe someone can post a pic of tank / pump location of an 89 - 93 / 94 - 97 Cougar/T-Bird.

LOL, yeah. As I had mentioned, it is not hard for me to drop the tank on my Cougar. The Mark was a total PITA to drop the tank.

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 180k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - still going....
1988 Lincoln Mark VII LSC - SOLD!
I've had too many other cars to mention...
white lincoln is offline  
post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by white lincoln View Post
... Maybe someone can post a pic of tank / pump location of an 89 - 93 / 94 - 97 Cougar/T-Bird.
OK, so this photo below is from that thread I hyperlinked to. It's not captioned or ID'd as to what year group it's from. The thread was started about a '97 4.6 fuel pump replacement. I've got the Dremel locked and loaded.
MDW
Edit: I'm pretty sure this pix is that of the 89-XX year group as I found another picture [of a top entry] from another source that is identical. Evaluating both pix will provide for a fairly accurate point of entry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OPENING_1.jpg (55.8 KB, 35 views)

Last edited by Air2Mud; 03-30-2019 at 08:06 PM. Reason: New information.
Air2Mud is offline  
post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 07:53 PM
PostWhore
 
white lincoln's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
Send a message via MSN to white lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
OK, so this photo below is from that thread I hyperlinked to. It's not captioned or ID'd as to what year group it's from. The thread was started about a '97 4.6 fuel pump replacement. I've got the Dremel locked and loaded.
MDW
Nice! Thank you for posting the pic.

1995 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 180k!
1994 Mercoury Cougar XR7 - still going....
1988 Lincoln Mark VII LSC - SOLD!
I've had too many other cars to mention...
white lincoln is offline  
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
... I'm pretty sure this pix is that of the 89-XX year group as I found another picture [of a top entry] from another source ...
Turns out this pix IS accurate wrt pump location and point of access but I'm going to figure out a way to drain as much fuel as I can then remove the tank completely.
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 09:56 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
Turns out this pix IS accurate wrt pump location and point of access but I'm going to figure out a way to drain as much fuel as I can then remove the tank completely.
MDW
Just be careful not to kink the fuel lines during removal / assembly. Better to drop the tank than risk cutting into the lines anyways.

Dropping the tank with fuel inside isn't nearly as bad as trying to install it with fuel - just be aware that the fuel may slosh to one side if you drop it unevenly.
Grog6 likes this.
dDUBb is offline  
post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dDUBb View Post
... Dropping the tank with fuel inside isn't nearly as bad as trying to install it with fuel - just be aware that the fuel may slosh to one side if you drop it unevenly.
OK, full disclosure since I last posted: I cheated and went in from under the rear seat cushion. With all the admonishments foremost in mind, it was not that bad. Some challenges during the R&R were overcome but a new Quantum 255LPH pump is now installed.

I'm glad I did the R&R this way as it allowed me to energize the pump with an external 12V source. The pump is quite happy. There are no leaks and I believe I can hear fuel getting up to the rail but it must be returning back to the tank as no pressure is registering on my fuel rail pressure gauge. What sort of problem might I be looking at [now]?
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 08:03 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,928
Garage
Disconnect the supply line at the fuel rail, and drop it into a container.

Apply power, and see how much fuel comes out in 10 seconds.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:39 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
OK, full disclosure since I last posted: I cheated and went in from under the rear seat cushion. With all the admonishments foremost in mind, it was not that bad. Some challenges during the R&R were overcome but a new Quantum 255LPH pump is now installed.

I'm glad I did the R&R this way as it allowed me to energize the pump with an external 12V source. The pump is quite happy. There are no leaks and I believe I can hear fuel getting up to the rail but it must be returning back to the tank as no pressure is registering on my fuel rail pressure gauge. What sort of problem might I be looking at [now]?
MDW
Like Grog said .. check to see if fuel is physically getting to the rail. If it is and you are not building pressure its either a bad pressure gauge ( not likely ) or a bad regulator.
dDUBb is offline  
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dDUBb View Post
Like Grog said .. check to see if fuel is physically getting to the rail. If it is and you are not building pressure its either a bad pressure gauge ( not likely ) or a bad regulator.
Thank you both for replying. This car has been kicking my ass for weeks now and I'm fucking sick and tired of it. I only have so much energy these days. lol

OK, back to cases - Grog sez let it pee in a bucket for 10 seconds via disconnecting the input line to the rail. That will obviously confirm fuel is getting to the rail put what's so important about letting it pee in a bucket for 10 seconds?
So, if fuel is being delivered to the rail it then goes direct to the FPR and the regulator allows a certain about of fuel to get to the rest of the rail which delivers fuel to the injectors?

Why don't I start with removing the pressure gauge and energize the fuel pump, connecting a small hose where the gauge was, and see what happens?
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 11:57 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,928
Garage
Tell me what the volume is, and I can tell you where your problem is.

There's a limit on the stock setup; you have a 255 setup. I have a few of those.

Give me a number; it won't be the number on the plate.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Tell me what the volume is, and I can tell you where your problem is.

There's a limit on the stock setup; you have a 255 setup. I have a few of those.

Give me a number; it won't be the number on the plate.
1. Do I start the 10 second clock when the pump is energized or when fuel begins to come out the far end into the bucket?
2. Since I verified both the pump out and fuel return hard plastic lines were clear - fuel filter removed - when I R&R'd the pump, won't this step only verify my 255 is working real good? I have no qualm with your advice, I just want a better understanding of what the bucket volume after 10 seconds of pump operation will reveal.

Beyond that I guess I might as well don my gloves and get ready to remove everything [again] to get to the fuel rail... Gah
MDW

Last edited by Air2Mud; 04-04-2019 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Clarification
Air2Mud is offline  
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 05:03 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
Thank you both for replying. This car has been kicking my ass for weeks now and I'm fucking sick and tired of it. I only have so much energy these days. lol

OK, back to cases - Grog sez let it pee in a bucket for 10 seconds via disconnecting the input line to the rail. That will obviously confirm fuel is getting to the rail put what's so important about letting it pee in a bucket for 10 seconds?
So, if fuel is being delivered to the rail it then goes direct to the FPR and the regulator allows a certain about of fuel to get to the rest of the rail which delivers fuel to the injectors?

Why don't I start with removing the pressure gauge and energize the fuel pump, connecting a small hose where the gauge was, and see what happens?
MDW
The 10 seconds is just enough time for the fuel line to fill up and piss into the bucket. Its not absolutely critical to measure the time, you will know for sure how well the pump is flowing during this diagnostic test.

Disconnecting the pressure gauge will work just as well as removing the fuel line, and much easier to get to - just be sure the line is snug enough on the Schrader that it doesn't blow off if you don't have a mechanical connection.
dDUBb is offline  
post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Alrighty then...

OK. I removed the Schrader valve, connected a piece of fuel tubing and extended it into a 16 oz. poly' bottle. After energizing the fuel pump, it took less than 3 seconds to fill the bottle to all but over flowing. Oh my!!!
So, notwithstanding what the rail pressure might end up being, my sense is that fuel is at least getting past the FPR. Right? Time to fire this dog up, maybe?
MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:35 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,928
Garage
If you have freely flowing fuel, it should be ok to start it.

Just make sure there are NO Fuel leaks before you start it.

If it still doesn't get fuel, it's possible stuff got past the filter, clogging the rail, but I've never seen that happen.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
... Just make sure there are NO Fuel leaks before you start it.
Before reinstalling the pressure gauge I took a look at the blue anodized piece that interfaces the gauge hardware with the fuel rail. My sense was that the little doo-dad inside the adaptor was not engaging the Schrader valve, thus exposing the gauge to the rail pressure. But it got better: there was no clear path thru the adaptor even if the doo-dad did engage the Schrader valve. I couldn't even blow thru it. So I drilled out the adaptor and, after ditching the Schrader valve, I reinstalled the gauge.

I plugged the wire harness back into the fuel pump and reconnected the battery. After 3 cycles to the ignition ON position I checked the gauge reading: 38psi indicated and no leaks anywhere, thank you very much. So I went back and sat myself down in the seat and started the car. It lit immediately and sat there happily idling away thinking we're going for a ride.
Not just yet.

At this point I'm VERY THANKFUL for all the advice and encouragement I received from everyone!!

During the tenure of this goatrope I managed to take the wheels off while the car was on jacks. You know, "Hey, we might as well do [fill-in-the-blank] ... "
1. I replaced the VAPS valve on the outlet of the power steering pump - no leaks detected there but I still have to road test it.
2. The car had been lowered ~1.5" but the rear stabilizer bar links had not been changed out. So I need to mount those with some upgraded urethane bushings.
3. And finally, I have a set of -3 AN stainless steel flex brake hoses to go on the corners.
4. And if all the above is not enough I'll have to deal with all the new CEL codes the engine puked up after me messing with it.

MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:12 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 56
Posts: 9,928
Garage
Get a full tank of premium gas, add a can of seafoam to the gas, and drive it out over a weekend, smoothly; wot is not what you want to do on one that has just run.

That will do a lot for a car that hasn't been driven much in a while.

You will need to drive it to see what pops up; the rubber stuff is all hard now, if it's original.

You will want to be looking at the rear bushings and the irs bushings if they've never been changed.

I'd put in shorter links on the rear swaybar; it binds up when you jack it, so watch for that.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
Grog6 is offline  
post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:18 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
dDUBb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor-Cal
Age: 38
Posts: 4,090
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air2Mud View Post
Alrighty then...

OK. I removed the Schrader valve, connected a piece of fuel tubing and extended it into a 16 oz. poly' bottle. After energizing the fuel pump, it took less than 3 seconds to fill the bottle to all but over flowing. Oh my!!!
So, notwithstanding what the rail pressure might end up being, my sense is that fuel is at least getting past the FPR. Right? Time to fire this dog up, maybe?
MDW
Sounds like its flowing very well. 38 PSI is good pressure. Nice to hear you got it started and running.

As for the FRP, its actually at the end of the fuel line before it returns to the tank .. the fuel rail is pressurized and it relieves excess fuel to the tank.

CEL .. if you can pull some codes that would help, either with a code reader or by using the diagnostics port / counting blinking lights. The OBD1 system is basically just a comprehensive component monitor system, so it only tells you if a sensor / solenoid is out of the desired range ( bad reading or faulty sensor )
dDUBb is offline  
post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Get a full tank of premium gas, add a can of seafoam to the gas, and drive it out over a weekend, smoothly; wot is not what you want to do on one that has just run.
That will do a lot for a car that hasn't been driven much in a while.
You will need to drive it to see what pops up; the rubber stuff is all hard now, if it's original.
You will want to be looking at the rear bushings and the irs bushings if they've never been changed....
All good suggestions.
I had all the suspension bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints (re)inspected when I got the car - especially all the stuff on the back end including the differential carrier - and the report I got was "look near new, no cracking, nothing to worry about, etc." (And I looked under there myself when I had the car apart. Except for just a small amount wicking out of the pinion seal, the car is so clean it looks like it just rolled off the line.)
Right before this recent down time I did just that wrt a load of good gas but I use BK44 not Seafoam.
LOL, the only worry I have now is whether or not the fuel level sensor went stupid because of any clumsiness on my part during the R&R. Right now with the engine running the fuel gauge is registering just a tad over E cuz that's about what's in the tank. When the wheels get back on the first stop will be for ~8-10 gal of 91 octane and then see what the gauge sez.

MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Air2Mud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Age: 74
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dDUBb View Post
...
CEL .. if you can pull some codes that would help, either with a code reader or by using the diagnostics port / counting blinking lights. The OBD1 system is basically just a comprehensive component monitor system, so it only tells you if a sensor / solenoid is out of the desired range ( bad reading or faulty sensor )
I have an OBD1 reader and an extension cable to use with it. You're right, that version is pretty basic, but at least it suggests where to look. I'm sure I'll have questions about real tuning but I'll stick those in a separate thread.

And I did mention you by name in a separate thread I started about S-bar links as I didn't want to corrupt this one.

Cheers, MDW
Air2Mud is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whole car shakes really really bad... not brakes basskid Drive Train 7 03-27-2007 07:49 PM
really REALLY HIGH IDLE!!! SR-71 Super Coupe 13 11-20-2006 12:12 AM
89 SC fuel pump help ZeroRain General Tech 0 05-15-2005 11:38 AM
Fuel pump dead!! (Mark VIII) Nightsky 93 VIII General Tech 0 10-06-2002 12:50 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome