3.8/4.2L exhaust theory! - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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3.8L Exhaust discussion

nice post RancherLee

I'm doing a huge SC oriented cam soon for a T-Bird guy,
it will have some good duration and huge lift, .599" on
the intake side

You can exceed the general guidelines but that
involves re-engineering the whole combo, as in
rear gearing, RPM range (intakes and heads, cams)
and nearly everything else. The only thing
I would change is exhaust system setup,
true duals of 2.25" works great but there
may be routing issues in a T-Bird, right?

How do you like your setup so far

Last edited by rancherlee; 11-28-2003 at 09:11 AM.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 02:10 PM
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Just to answer your Q, a good exhasut shop should not have problems routing true dual up to 2.5 inches in any T-bird with a 93+ style (I think it's 93) gas tank. I hope that cam is gonna sound nice. I have never heard an SC with a nice sounding exhaust.

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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 04:03 PM
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is there really an advantage to true dual exhaust on a V6? I've got dual 2.25" into a single 3" on my car but I could have done dual 2.25" all the way back, there is room. I did all the cutting and welding on my exhaust when I built it. I'm kind of debating weather to change my exhaust setup when I get the Kook long tubes or just keep my single 3"

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-27-2003, 05:21 PM
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It's hard to tell whether or not there is an advantage. I feel there are only a few factors that can alter exhaust velocity and volume (not db): pipe diameter, light angled bends, muffler style (chambered vs straight through) and scavenging. On the 3.8, I figure 2.25 is ideal whether it's true dual or into a single 3 inch. Once blown, 2.5 inch diameter could not hurt. It would be interesting to experiment with x-pipe locations for tuning since it is pretty much certain that an x-pipe location for a v8 won't be optimal for the v6. I have heard multiple theories on how to optimize that, but my reasoning comes from the fact that our banks fire completely isolated from eachother. First cyls 1-3 fire, then 4-6. It may be that an x-pipe does nothing for us. If that's the case (which I doubt) maybe true duals without a crossover or a merge would be the way to go.

PJ

PS-- Rancher, if you want this on a different thread, start it and I will move this over.

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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I really need to experiment on this even-fire V6 exh. setup.
I have several ideas (which I can try once I get My'stang)
The firing is actually like this, 1-4, 2-5, 3-6, 1-4... etc. and
1 cycle takes 2 crank revolutions. the 1-2-3 is evenly spaced
as is the 4-5-6 so each side can have a conservatively sized
header collector and pipe to the cats. I have recommended
2.25" for most setups since it handles 300 BHP without a
restriction. Total flow is ~1160 CFM versus ~1030 for single 3"
so even a single 3" pipe is doing quite well! These are max
theoretical figures, there is gonna be a loss in the bends
and so forth, but both types have it so I just compare the
max possible flow #'s.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 09:13 AM
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I didn't need to start it ove, just moved the appropriate posts and renamed it.
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 09:31 AM
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ok this is more along the thread i was looking for.....i posted in the other one about your exhaust coment.....im not to sure but it just seems a little small 2" duals seems like it would only get to about 230whp-26whp...while 2.25 duals would get father and i doubt alot of backpresure would be lost....but its also the issues of the gas tanks i guess

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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kewl, I'm on board

I'd say PJ could really use 2.5" duals NA if he really
gets serious with the setup. I'd like to see how a
v6 works with a Pro-Chamber or X pipe
(I hate "H" pipes now ) but in theory
the even fire 6 does not need it at all...

I'm theorizing on a type of resonator or something
in between the pipes that adds a little bit of "rasp"
or "growl" to the note, while not killing flow. It would
be a big seller if it made a more V8-like sound and
was a weld-in or bolt-on setup
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 10:38 AM
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I still figuring out what to blame on my loss of low end torque. (head/camming or exhaust)
BONE stock with the 3.23 open rear diff and stock 2" single exhaust I was cutting 2.41-2.44 60ft's
Now with 3.73 posi, underdrive crank, Ported heads, intakes, cam, and my large 3" single exhaust the best 60ft to date is a 2.500 but I haven't been able to test it with the 3200rpm converter since I STILL haven't gotten my tranny from Pete.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 04:31 PM
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RGR, thanks for clarifying the firing order. There already is a muffler that you would love for your x-pipe application. I'm running true 2.5" duals from the kooks headers into the Edelbrock RPM performer muffler, which is a dual-in dual-out 2.5" muffler, which merges (Xes) inside. I'll try to find a pic and post it. I used to have just an X-pipe, and it sounded like crap. It was very raspy-- like a trumpet and sounded like a rice burner. It was definately the lack of a resonator in my case.

The current setup with the Edelbrock muffler out to dual 2.5s and terminated by dual magnaflows sounds SWEET. It has a very V8 gurgle at idle and driving through parking lots, but when you gun it, it sounds like nothing I have ever heard. It's a very tuned, determined scream. It's not ricey and it definately doesn't sound like a V8 or a boat.

Rancher, I don't know why you aren't seeing better 60 ft times. All I can say is that I expected a low-end loss with my 2.5" duals, but instead I was surprised with MUCH BETTER torque than I had with the stock single exhaust setup. I think it may have had something to do with the X-pipe.

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Last edited by PJ-4.2L; 11-28-2003 at 06:50 PM.
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 05:21 PM
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how much is that eldebrock muffler?

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 06:49 PM
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I was charged $90 for it, which seems kinda steep, but it is a polished unit-- not that I care.

PJ

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 07:17 PM
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My old setup:


The Edelbrock muffler:




I have another couple of pics I need to upload, but I need to wait until I retrieve my password for my web space...

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-28-2003, 08:01 PM
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In this pic, you can kinda see the muffler converging inside:



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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-29-2003, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RGR
nice post RancherLee

I'm doing a huge SC oriented cam soon for a T-Bird guy,
it will have some good duration and huge lift, .599" on
the intake side

Is that me?

I have a true dual setup with 2.25" pipes, high flow cats, and glasspacks. I think it sounds awesome for a v6 and sure flows good. Can't wait tog et a cam and ported heads on.
-Thomas

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 12:41 PM
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wow...looks kind of coo......it also looks really long?....whats the demensions on that beast?

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 01:35 PM
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It's approximately 24 inches long. I'd have to get under the car and measure it, but it's too damn cold outside.

PJ

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 03:57 PM
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dayum......big thing.....so theres a place under the bird were it sit ok and has room around it?

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-30-2003, 04:35 PM
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i wonder what some of the Edelbrock mufflers would sound like on v8s.....if it gives the v6 a nice growl it cant be bad for the V8s at all.....im liking these mufflers

1995 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 LX - SC wheels, enlarged rear sway bar, full sound system, cut mufflers, PST 1 1/8" rear bar, Eibachs, Mark 8 LCA's, Al housed 3.55 gearset, cut mufflers
2011 BMX X5 Xdrive50i - BMS Stage 1, Cut Muffler
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L-Her stock DD
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-02-2003, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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That's you Thomas!

I like this cam even more,
mondo lift and just right duration
for big supercoupe boost. We made
300 RWHP and 400 RWTq with a
similar intake duration on a 4.3
stroker and SC top end, and his
exhaust system is costing him lots
of HP and lots of things are mismatched.
(hard to get people to do the whole
combo sometimes ) He only has
the .495/.520 lifts while yours is
.599/.560 so I see much more potential
in your setup with big boost.
BTW, the above combo on a 4.3
made all that power on only ~8-9# boost
so you are looking good with more
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 01:23 AM
 
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hey i got true duals on my 3.8 but the muffler is at the way back off the car cause the dude said there was no room under the car besides the back off the car so i have nothing but 2 pips then the muffler and the tips are coming out the muffler now is that right or can i sue him for that just wondering
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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I love that RPM muffler concept,
is the X Pipe still on there in front?
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 02:49 PM
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RGR, the x-pipe in the first picture is where the muffler is located now. The x-pipe is gone, and going for sale.

lowthunder, I don't think you can sue a guy in this case. He simply wasn't a good exhaust dude. There is plenty of room for the right muffler under the center of the car. Ask your local hot rodders and ricers where they got their exhaust done and take your car there.

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by PJ-4.2L
RGR, the x-pipe in the first picture is where the muffler is located now. The x-pipe is gone, and going for sale.

PJ
What size and how much?

I have trade bait, or credit towards good stuff

I'm really wanting a 2.25" but 2.5" will be good for bigger engines. LMK!
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Talking

RGR calls "DIBS"


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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 04:08 PM
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It's 2.5 in and 2.5 out. It's a magnaflow piece and has a short length of 2.5 pipe already welded to one end, but the entire x-pipe unit is still whole.

A dude just sold his here for $90

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...threadid=30544

But since mine is used (1500 miles), I will let it go for $70, if that sounds fair.

PJ

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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by PJ-4.2L
It's 2.5 in and 2.5 out. It's a magnaflow piece and has a short length of 2.5 pipe already welded to one end, but the entire x-pipe unit is still whole.

A dude just sold his here for $90

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...threadid=30544

But since mine is used (1500 miles), I will let it go for $70, if that sounds fair.

PJ

Sounds fair, but I'd rather trade!
You need a cam, I could make you a
great deal or I have a die grinder and
speed control FS ($100) I'd go even-up for that
or whatever, U just ask!
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 06:09 PM
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Check your PMs.

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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 07:18 PM
 
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anybody got an under the car pic of a dual exhaust setup with a 2.5" into single 3" split to dual 2.25" then to mufflers and tips?
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 10:19 PM
 
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My exhaust was done the exact same way as yours was. What do you think of your sound? I like the idle and when you punch it over 45 mph. but accelerating and cruising has an irritating sound to me.
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