How does a 4.5 liter stroker sound for starters? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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How does a 4.5 liter stroker sound for starters?

My machinist has done strokers for a long time.
He did perhaps the world's first 408 Windsor
stroker V8 in 1987, 2 years before SuperFord's
Factory Hotline columnist John Vermeersch said
it could not be done. He has also has done
Cleveland strokers, stroker 4 cyl's and BB Olds
over 500" in size and several more. He worked up
the first level (easy) V6 stroker and came out at
4.5 liters with only a .030" overbore, not bad!
We are building one for a V6Stangs guy early
next year, or I'll just do one when I get the $$$
and sell it. It will be competitive with existing
offerings, and it's all forged except for the crank
core, (4.2 core) but rods and pistons are forged.
The current 4.4 uses hyper pistons and factory
chrysler rods but mine is using aftermarket forged parts.

Just wondered if this would be a good thing to do
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 05:21 PM
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very tempting, should work great for an engine to make lots of power below 6000rpm. I think I'll stick with 4.2L build up for my engine, just crank up the boost a bit and keep it under 6000rpm.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 06:01 PM
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what length mopar rods, the 6.123" ?

any way to make ford 300-6 rods work with a stroker?
My specs show 6.209 length 9.122 or .9752 pin bore depending on year (I have both sizes) and a 2.12" crank journal size, seeing if any off my 300-6 stuff is any good to use also sorces show a 2.6 safty margin on these factory rods which were in an engine that made 260ft-lbs from the factory so they should be plent strong for 500ft-lbs+
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 06:22 PM
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ok decided to play with my 300-6 rod specs

came up with a 4.1L stroker using an 3.8L crank
3.58" stroke (252.7cid with a .060 overbore) and a 1.2" compression height = good

maximum stroke on a 4.2L crank gives a 3.93" stroke for a 4.5L (277cid with .060 overbore)
but the compression height is 1.025" which I believe is TOO short.

The 4.1L would handle a bunch of HP/TQ and have a great journal size to rev it up a bit
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2003, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rancherlee
came up with a 4.1L stroker using an 3.8L crank
3.58" stroke (252.7cid with a .060 overbore) and a 1.2" compression height = good

The 4.1L would handle a bunch of HP/TQ and have a great journal size to rev it up a bit
Make me one Suonds like a good application for the both of us.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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the Morana stroker uses the 6.12x Mopar rods,
I'm planning to use a different length. (unspecified for now)
I don't talk much about the internal specs cuz we got into
a big argument (not heated, just had ignorant peeps doubting me)
so I'm just gonna build one and silence the critics.
4.5 is the level 1 all-forged stroker, you can certainly make
many smaller c.i. strokers, and many bigger ones, this
one is just a "one-up" design that is economical enough
to build and be competitive with a smaller hyper-piston
stroker, I admire the cheaper parts used but for the money
I can offer an all-forged unit with more cubes!

Thanx for the 300-6 rod info rancherlee, those are good for
certain combos and have good length for long rod setups.
That CH of 1.025" is short, but could be done on an NA only setup.
My setup has sufficient CH for power adders on my 4.5 and
it gets that with only a 30 over piston too

I've already said too much!
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RGR
I've already said too much!
You havn't said enough. That's an REM song sorry, it just came to mind. ANYWAY, sounds like an awesome engine. I'm excited to see it finished!

OH and also, have you gotten my money order yet RGR?

-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Let's just say the V6 stroker article in MM&FF a while back is
not bad, but kinda misleading. 30 over is nowhere near the
limit of a V6 block being overbored I heard second hand
that Morana routinely goes 60 over, this verifies my shop's
experience nicely I personally doubt that Ford ever made
a V6 block that could not take 60 over!
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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BTW, no MO yet, probably today!
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:17 AM
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so what do you consider a SAFE compression height for a power adder engine?
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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whatever your piston mfg. can do to get
all 3 rings in above the pin. I know for most
that is 1.250" or so...

it is not the height so much as the lack of rail
under the oil ring that causes oil consumption.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2003, 12:43 PM
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now you got me thinking, I've been running all over the net finding different rods and playing with numbers. How much does turning the crank down weaken the crank? Especially on a 90* V6 where the journals are offset?
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 03:04 AM
 
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What size are the journals for the mopar rod you're talking about? I assume you're talking about offset grinding to get that 4.1... how far would you have to offset and what kinda rods are we talking about? (In the process of rebuilding the SC and will have to get new rods and pistons anyway so if the price is right... )

EDIT

Apparently Chris Wise (the man at the top of the list on SCCoA's fastest sc's) has offset ground his crank and gone with chevy rods.....
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-06-2003, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by mn12sc35th
What size are the journals for the mopar rod you're talking about? I assume you're talking about offset grinding to get that 4.1... how far would you have to offset and what kinda rods are we talking about? (In the process of rebuilding the SC and will have to get new rods and pistons anyway so if the price is right... )

EDIT

Apparently Chris Wise (the man at the top of the list on SCCoA's fastest sc's) has offset ground his crank and gone with chevy rods.....
If you find a shop that OS grinds cranks they will tell you all the details.
I know that some do it differently. I got a place here that I can get it
done and sell cranks ready to go!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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OK, more 4.5 stroker info:

It was done using a 2.100" ch*vy rod and offset grinding the crank to the 3.95"
range. Using a custom piston that is 3.84" size. (30 over) Our local STROKER KING
said it would be power adder capable, and RPM pretty well. These rods
are now available in 6", 6.125", 6.2" and 6.25" now from various mfg's.
I think 6.125 is the shortest you could use and still might need to turn
down the counterweights, (or under the piston pin) and still get a good
pin height on the piston, around 1.1xx" but the piston mfg. I'm talking
to says that is great with "buttons" in the piston pin hole to support the
oil rings.

4.49 (4.5) liters. With a .030" overbore. 60 over makes it a 4.56, and
you could call that a 4.6 thru rounding. 278.959 cubic inch pretty much.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 12:21 AM
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Of added advantage is that a stroked motor revs less as well. This places less stress on the rotating assembly thus increasing longevity. Much more torque can be achieved at the same time improving launches.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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I'm looking at a 4.6-ish setup for myself, but not as listed above.
Slightly less stroke and more bore. Stronger crank that way and
better breathing with valve unshrouding. Big Valves for it too.
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