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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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True Dual exhuast

Back again about another exhuast question guys. I am going to get true dual for my 3.8 and the guy I took it to said he could do it for $425, He said he could split the Y pipe from the headers and then go from there, he will put flowmasters on it, 40's I think, this includes all of the pipes and stuff, no resonator though (which is what I don't want). If he messes with the CAT will it mess up the sensor inside and make my engine light come on?

Do you guys think its worth $425? I really need some good advice here, I am seriously going to get my car into something that will turn heads. I just need an expert oponion on my car since you guys obviously know more about the car then this guy. I'll be asking alot of more questions to come every month, Every month i'm going to get something done to the car
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 10:40 PM
 
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if that includes the price of the mufflers, its an OK price..

dont go from the y back..thats not true duals. Manifolds back. removing the 3rd cat wont have any effect on the emmissions and wont give you a CEL
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Should I just get a high flow cat then? He said he will run two pipes from each header, true dual. But I don't want him to mess with the cat if the engine light will come on. If I replace the cat and buy 2 high flows will the light come on for removing them?
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 10:16 AM
 
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If you keep all of the o2 sensors, you will be fine. you can run it from after the main cats on back and you'll be fine, or you could get high flows..jut leave the o2 sensors.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks alot guys, hopefully this will be done sometime the begining of next month.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 04:08 PM
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As long as were on the subject. I was under my car recently and checked the exhaust system out. (Factory stock right now) Correct me if I am wrong on anything, as I am not sure what all the parts are! (I wish it were like the old days! pipes and mufflers) Anyway, there is one cat on each down-tube from the manifold, correct? And the down tubes both feed into what looks like another cat. From the third cat, one tube feeds into what resembles a small muffler (resonator?) then one pipe all the way back to a large resonator (muffler). What are all these parts really? and which ones are necessary to keep the feds happy? I'd like to get a simple dual exhaust system just for the sound, and get rid of the third cat.


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
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255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 04:37 PM
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on the 90 your fine, its only a resonator at the back of the y, it wont trip any lights. on the 96 it has a resonator just after the y and then the muffler is all the way at the back.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 09:15 PM
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I have true dual exhaust on my car. I would put high flow cats on there for better back pressure. On a mostly stock 3.8 you'll need a good amount of back pressure as the engine doesn't really put out enough power to need a really free flowing exhaust. I have true duals on my car. I used 97 shorty headers and I ported the collector to 2.25" then had new downtubes made into 2 2.25" catco cats then an h-pipe (for sound) and then 2 glass packs, then true duals all the way out the back splitting before the rear diff. I think I'll be replacing the glasspacks with some kind of straight through design muffler sometime int he summer. But for now the glasspacks really don't sound too bad.

Just keep in mind you'll want to convert to MAF sensor system sometime in the future if you plan on making a head turning 3.8.

On a 90 you can remove the cats and do whatever you want with the exhaust as long as you make o2 bungs near the collector of the headers.

-Thomas

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 09:17 PM
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That's what my downtubes and cats look like in case you're wondering.

-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 10:01 PM
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RUB IT IN BASTARD, SO YOU GOT AN H-PIPE AND I DIDN'T, well glad you feel it was necessary for you to let all these wonderful people know and humiliate me!

-Kurt
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 10:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 92CougLS
RUB IT IN BASTARD, SO YOU GOT AN H-PIPE AND I DIDN'T, well glad you feel it was necessary for you to let all these wonderful people know and humiliate me!
aahahahahha

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 11:23 PM
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Yeah Thomas How are you runnin true dual exhaust when you have an H pipe I was under the impression that true dual exhaust is one pipe for each side no connections between the two like mine I have no H or X pipe all the way back sounds great too

94 SC with Built 4r70W and 408W
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 11:48 PM
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true duals are just two seperate pipes that run the length of the car. even with an x or h pipe it's still true dual. It's said that on 5.0's you MUST have an h or x pipe because it's not an even fire engine and it won't idle properly if both pipes aren't connected somewhere. But it's still true dual.
-Thomas

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-23-2003, 11:58 PM
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Forgot to add some things.


An h-pipe or x-pipe can only be used on true dual systems. Which implies that true duals are still true duals even with an h or x pipe.

And just to spite Kurt here's another picture



-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 12:00 AM
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Nice exhaust system Thomas, really! and I am envious! But what I really want to know is what all of the parts are on the current system so I know what to get rid of, and what to keep. I can't afford to replace any of the cats, the ones I have run fine. But it appears that there are three of them and that is at least one to many! Plus there is what appears to be a muffler under the middle of the car (forward of the gas tank) and another at the very end. Do I need both of these? I'd like to run true duals but it just isn't in the budget right now. I'd just like to get a nice sound out of the V-6. My plan now is to get rid of what appears to be a third cat, lose the muffler in the middle, split the exhaust before the rear end and put duals out the back (similar to a factory V-8 exhaust) with magna flows or something right at the end. This shouldn't hurt performance, and it should sound decent. To get all this done I need to know more than the exhaust builder thinks he knows, so when he tells me he can't do that, I can tell him he can.


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 12:02 AM
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Nice pic Thomas, I'd like to do something similar only with one 2.5" pipe where you have two running parallel. Using the stock downtubes and Cats.


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
<<< SOLD >>>
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 12:04 AM
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Been looking at the pics again. Are those compression bends? I only ask cause in my small town there is no one who has a Mandrel bender. I asked a guy if he had a Mandrel bender (I was looking right at it, knowing it was a compression bender) and he hesitated and said "yea, it was a Mandrel bender". He didn't have a clue.


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
<<< SOLD >>>
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 12:36 AM
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mandrel benders are 300,000 dollar machines and most exhaust shops do compression bends. You'd be hard pressed to find a shop with a mandrel bender. If the shop guy is saying it's a mandrel bender and it obviously looks like a compression bender I'd find a different place to do my exhaust.

As for parts of the exhaust, on an OBD II car like yours, traveler, you'll have no choice but to keep the stock cats. you have 4 o2 sensors. 2 for the operation of the engine, and 2 for the emissions control. You can buy MIL eliminators that delete your rear 02's and allow you to put on aftermarket cats or delete them completely without having to buy a computer chip. But if you're going to keep your stock cats anyway, just cut off past the front 2 cats and build your exhaust from there back. Have the shop weld in 2 o2 sensor bungs for the rear 02 sensors.

Yeah my exhaust is compression bent.

-Thomas

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 12:50 AM
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Thanks. That answers most of my questions. Where are the second set of 02 sensors located?


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
<<< SOLD >>>
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 01:20 AM
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Behind the cats and before the resonator.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 01:32 AM
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Ok! Got it. Think thats all I need. I appreciate all the info. I'll let you know how things go. I know of a shop here in town that will let me stand in the garage and let me harass them while they work, so I'll probably have them do it. Always like to keep an eye out when someone else is working on her.


1997 Thunderbird Sport
Low Miles
Wifes Car
destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
'89 SuperCoupe front and rear sway bars
SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
255/50/16 Falken Ziex ZE-512's
True Dual exhaust with Magnaflow DI/DO muffler
<<< SOLD >>>
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 01:29 PM
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I just figured I would warn you guys. You will not like the sound of an exhaust system without a resonator under the center of the car. If you're not keeping the stock one, use at least an aftermarket resonator, even if it means no mufflers at the bumper.

PJ

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 03:10 PM
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Traveler and PJ,

I have to step in here. I have removed my Resonator and have no ill effects. The damn resonator was leaking and I had been getting sick from that.

I found a place that sells mandrel bent U pipes, but they are only in Mild Steel. So they will start rusting, but any joker can weld the suckers.

Thomas has heard and driven my car without the resonator.

I've been studying and scheming to re-do my exhaust.

I'm searching for a place that will sell me aluminized, mandrel bent 2 1/2" pipes with the ball and socket flanges to go from my shorty headers to under the car where I'll put on my high flow universal cats. I'll remove the 3rd cat and replace it with a "Bloated" Y pipe. Then, I'll leave the rest of the stock system alone to see if I like what I've done so far.

My idea behind the funky Y pipe is that the 3rd cat acts like both muffler and cat. I figure by putting an air chamber in the Y pipe, I won't need a resonator or X pipe to make nice sounds.

I can then put on 2 1/2" pipes out to the muffler and get a different muffler since mine is all banged up.

I'll go to OEM type duals if I ever get the V6 built up enough to need more flow than a 2 1/2" single system.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 05:57 PM
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Are you running the stock muffler without the resonator?

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 06:02 PM
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Yes, it is the original muffler with 63,000 miles on it.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 07:09 PM
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I ran my splitport LX with a resonator delete y-pipe for a short period of time, only because that was what the kid that owned the car before me had installed. The exhaust was completely stock except for the abscense of the resonator and a terminator muffler in place of the stock one.

I didn't like the sound much, but it wasn't bad. I think the reason was that the terminator muffler was a pretty quiet muffler, much like the stock one.

Here are the pics of my current setup on that car:






Ported manifolds
2.25" downtubes
2.25" Catco high flows
18" Magnaflow resonator
Single 3" to dual 3" to 2.75" tips

The size of these pipes would be a little overkill on a stock N/A V6.

-Rod

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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PCD
Yes, it is the original muffler with 63,000 miles on it.
Now switch that muffler for a high-flow one and, surprise... Ricer's paradise. I promise you won't like how it sounds.

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 09:55 PM
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PJ does have a point Dan. You might consider getting a nice magnaflow or flowmaster muffler in place of where your resonator used to be and then just have nothing at the back. Josh (electric red sc at oct5 club clash) had a y-pipe in place of resonator and two mufflers at back and it really sounded like crap. Ask him, he agrees. Plus, if you get one muffler in place of resonator instead of two mufflers in back you save money by buying just one muffler
-Thomas

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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-24-2003, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
Plus, if you get one muffler in place of resonator instead of two mufflers in back you save money by buying just one muffler
-Thomas
EXACTLY. And saving money is good.

-Rod

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-2003, 12:01 AM
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I dont have a resonator on mine I think it sounds good cmon guys this is a v6 your never gonna get a really great sound I think we should should post sound clips of our exhaust so the people could actually hear them I could probaly find a digital camera in a couple days and post a clip here is an older clip sounds alot better now http://members.tccoa.com/lx2sc/exhaust.mpg

Oh by the way merry christmas everyone

94 SC with Built 4r70W and 408W

Last edited by lx2sc; 12-25-2003 at 12:07 AM.
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