70mm MAF on a 3.8...will it work? - TCCoA Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-05-2004, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
70mm MAF on a 3.8...will it work?***UPDATE***

I have a 1991 cougar 3.8L n/a. A fellow tbird owner mentioned the possibility of the 4.6L MAF working on my car. i am not sure if i have 19lb injectors or not. can someone shed some light on this. Thanks

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.

Last edited by Roy Batty; 01-11-2004 at 02:06 AM.
Roy Batty is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-05-2004, 04:04 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
my 93 has a 70mm maf on it. The thing you need to do is only use the MAF Housing but use your stock sensor from your 91. You'll have a heck of a time getting out those tamper proof bolts, but you can find a bit online or at an auto parts store.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
That is music to my ears *speeds to junk yard*
So the size of the injectors is "not" an issue then?

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 03:23 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
not as long as you use your factory sensor and just swap over the housings.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 04:36 PM
The Parts Guy
 
racecougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Imperial, Missouri (near St. L
Age: 36
Posts: 7,265
By the way, stock injectors for a 3.8L N/A are 14lb. Thomas is completely correct, just swap the housing over and enjoy a little more air.


-Rod

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
racecougar is offline  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
Thanks again guys. i'll get some pics of the results!

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 09:47 AM
PCD
Confirmed V6 Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dubuque, Iowa
Age: 63
Posts: 2,261
I have a question here.

If I took a 80 mm MAF housing from a 4.6L and used my sensor from my 70 mm MAF, would that work?

If I took an 80 mm MAF and sensor from a 4.6L and installed both. Would that work on my 3.8?

I'm looking for the why and why not, and how to get around the why not.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
PCD is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 03:44 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
the sensors are totally different, the sensor will not fit in the 80mm housing. So you would need to get the wiring harness for that MAF and get a chip to reprogram the MAF sensor to work correctly.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
I was just toying around het idea of using a mm MAF. A problem a friend mentioned, was that a stock 3.8L may lean out some. 70mm should do fine though. I am going looking this weekend

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 08:41 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 50
Umm accually I ran with a 98 Cobra 80MM MAF for almost a year just swapped the electronic bits(carefully-good time to clean it too). I had to grind the corners on the MAF-to make it a circle as it had that stupid square arrangement on it-down with a dremel tool(be careful or you'll crack it) and take out the rubber adapter thing that the stock MAF mounts in replace that with some high temp hose from a Semi repair shop( free if you get scraps that they can't use).
PCD if you need pics I'll pop them over to ya.
Autozone sells the tamper proof bit tools in a set or if you get a C&L MAF you get one free.
Just one thing to remember going from 14# injectors to 19#'s on a calibration will lean you out a little bit but not so much as you'd ever notice if you were to go to say an 80M from a cobra you'll need 36# injectors from the same car(keep in mind they swapped connector styles in Mid 99) yes ford MAFS are calibrated in a similar way that C&L mafs are the sampling post in themiddle has a block off plate screwed into the back that is what sets the calibration on the meter.
Zippythesquirrel is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2004, 05:25 AM
PCD
Confirmed V6 Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dubuque, Iowa
Age: 63
Posts: 2,261
Now I need MAF 101. I'm F-bomb lost.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
PCD is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2004, 05:45 AM
Cougar Pilot
 
BlackCat94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Gopher State
Posts: 3,443
Well sir, I read that post long and hard, and it made very little sense. Sorry.

All I know is my factory 3.8L electronic portion of the MAF will not fit on my 80mm L-MAF housing.
BlackCat94 is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2004, 06:17 AM
Veteran Poster
 
5.0 Chero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central coast ca
Posts: 773
Send a message via AIM to 5.0 Chero
Quote:
Originally posted by Zippythesquirrel

Just one thing to remember going from 14# injectors to 19#'s on a calibration will lean you out a little bit but not so much as you'd ever notice if you were to go to say an 80M from a cobra you'll need 36# injectors from the same car(keep in mind they swapped connector styles in Mid 99) yes ford MAFS are calibrated in a similar way that C&L mafs are the sampling post in themiddle has a block off plate screwed into the back that is what sets the calibration on the meter.
Sorry but this is totaly un true Factory Ford MAF are not calibrated to injector size! The puter is what maps the injectors. Mass air flow meters that are "calibrated to injector size" Just fool the computer into thinkink it is getting less air

73 ranchero with a 89 5.0 EFI HO/AOD
THE PYL !
91 Tbird lx 5.0 swap
GONE 93 5.0 Stang vert
54 Ford Vicky PAXTON SUPERCHARGED 5.0 HO/AOD
86 F250 Diesel 4x4
GONE 89 Aerostar
2003 F350 Super duty
1996 Exploder
5.0 Chero is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-11-2004, 02:06 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
5.0 chero:
If I were to go from 14 lb injectors to 19 lb. injectors, I'd be running rich not lean. Also, I found (what I believe) to be a MAF from a 4.6L. Only problem is that is was on a 94 XR7 3.8L! I found this to be odd, to say the least. After comparing the MAf to that a a V8 towncar, I concluded it to be the same in design. It is on my car, and there is a difference in throttle response. Nothing to write home about, but a little something to add-on. Thanks for the info. I'll have to see whatelse that XR7 has that I want. Could be a factory freak, or maybe some was buidling something when it went bad. Junk yard 101

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-11-2004, 02:26 AM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
All 94-97 4.6's, 94-97 3.8's, and 91-95 sc's had the 70mm MAF housing. It's not from a 4.6 it's from a 94 xr7 3.8. It was factory. I hope you swapped sensors first.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-11-2004, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
I did not swap the sensors. What difference would it make though> It runs good, and the motors are the same What am I missing here...

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-11-2004, 12:35 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
the sensors have different transfer functions programmed. as long as the part number on the sensor matches up you can use it.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
They are different. What problems can this cause? I tell you, my car runs much better know. Not to mention it came off a 3.8L. Other than slight electronic variations between years (if any), what "possible" issues can arise? Just trying to get an idea of what gremelins I'm fooling with. Thanks.

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 12:44 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
Because the sensors are different. They are programmed with different functions. Just use your stock one. When I put on my 70mm MAF from a 94 3.8 I wondered what it'd do if I left the 94 sensor on there. My air/fuel gauge showed I was in open loop constantly. That is not good. I couldn't feel a difference but I saw it on the air/fuel gauge. So use your stock sensor.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
I'll look into getting those goofy MAF screws off. That is the main reason I have not changed them over. Gas milage and all seems a bit better than normal. We'll see how this tank of gas goes. I do see what you are saying though. I'll play it by ear. and change when possible.

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 07:59 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
Okay just do me a favor and don't bring the car to redline until you change that sensor. Consequences could be catastrophic.

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
I've never redlinded, so that should not be an issues. Thanks for the heads up. Just for the sake of myself, and any other readers, what could be some of the issues a 3.8L may fall victim to? That is, if the sensor is not the correct one.

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 01:20 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
Well, if it's programmed for the wrong injectors it could scorch a piston.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 02:03 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
TBird232ci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Severn, Md
Age: 34
Posts: 150
Send a message via AIM to TBird232ci
Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
Well, if it's programmed for the wrong injectors it could scorch a piston.
-Thomas
the thing that confuses me, i have 14# injectors in the basement, theyre black tops, his car tan tops...shouldnt they be the same color if theyre the same injectors?
TBird232ci is offline  
post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 02:06 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
um, the newer eec's control a 4r70w transmission. Just buy a chip if you're so determined to keep the sensor. Is it that hard just to swap in your old sensor?
-Thomas

EDIT: umm, okay you totally changed your post there. I don't know why they're different.

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner

Last edited by Thomas; 01-26-2004 at 02:14 PM.
Thomas is offline  
post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 03:14 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 493
Oh, don't strip the god damn screws either, like I did. Now I've got a dirty MAF with no way of getting the sensor off...
Vegeta99 is offline  
post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 04:31 PM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
Quote:
Originally posted by Vegeta99
Oh, don't strip the god damn screws either, like I did. Now I've got a dirty MAF with no way of getting the sensor off...
MAF Tip #178123: Take a dremel tool with a cutting bit and cut a straight line into the head of the screw. This way you can use a standard screwdriver to get them out. And a hardware store should have some new screws for you in the right threading in standard or philips head.

-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner
Thomas is offline  
post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
4th Gear Poster
 
Roy Batty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Md
Posts: 233
Thanks dad Now that I am going for the HO, guess I'l'l have to hit the yard yet again...

Everyday of my life is a constant fight, between wrong and right.

When there is no grass on the field, go around back and play in the mud.
Roy Batty is offline  
post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 01:04 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 24
Any body want to comment on this application guide. It seems to have several errors. So I am not sure if this will only confuse more.
It seems to indicate
65mm
91-92 Ranger 3.0
70mm
94-95 Mustang 5.0 or 3.8
92-93 Thunderbird 5.0 (also read stock is 55mm)
94-95 Thunderbird 4.6
92-94 Ranger 4.0
91-95 Explorer 4.0
94-95/96 F series 5.0 & 5.8 (some rectangular)
90-91 Crown Vic 5.0
91-95 Crown Vic 4.6
(how do these hook up to cables?)

But as a reality check:
K&N conical filter 1000+ cfm

stock MAF ? cfm
Ford Mustang 55mm MAF 550 cfm
(accuracy of different models comes into play)
a/f tune inaccuracy could swamp any flow increases?

stock 3.8 throttle body "300-360 cfm"
half shafted throttle body "430 cfm-455"
5.0 throttle body 60mm "535-540 cfm"

choke point of 3.8 upper intake AFTER porting "550 cfm"

all out to crooked right angle in cats with 1 7/8" piping PISS POOR cfm

Last edited by greatestbestest; 02-04-2004 at 08:48 PM.
greatestbestest is offline  
post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 01:11 AM
Moderator
Iowa Chapter Director
Uber Luber
TCCoAAC Member
Moderator
 
Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Age: 35
Posts: 8,978
Quote:
Originally posted by greatestbestest
Any body want to comment on this application guide. It seems to have several errors. So I am not sure if this will only confuse more.
It seems to indicate
65mm
91-92 Ranger 3.0
70mm
94-95 Mustang 5.0 or 3.8
92-93 Thunderbird 5.0
94-95 Thunderbird 4.6
92-94 Ranger 4.0
91-95 Explorer 4.0
94-95/96 F series 5.0 & 5.8 (some rectangular)
90-91 Crown Vic 5.0
91-95 Crown Vic 4.6

But as a reality check:
stock MAF
stock 3.8 throttle body "360 cfm"
half shafted throttle body "430 cfm"
5.0 throttle body "535-540 cfm"


choke point of 3.8 upper intake "550 cfm"
Any idea on the CFM flow of a polished 60mm throttle body? I guess that matches my 3.8 upper pretty nicely. I've got a few ideas to get rid of the choke point on the upper.

I'm pretty sure the 92-93 5.0's didn't have a 70mm MAF but I could be wrong. I'll look into it.

-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner

Last edited by Thomas; 01-27-2004 at 02:22 AM.
Thomas is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome