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post #1 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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looking into swapping in a high perform. 3.8

hi all,
my 93 V6 Cougar has over 240,000 miles on the engine. The transmission is just under a year old.
Anyways, I'm looking into getting a newer engine as opposed to modifying this current one.
I love my car but due to my job, I don't have the time nor the engine knowledge to completely enhance what I have.

My mechanic suggested looking into Motorcraft for any replacement engines they may provide. He did tell me GM does offer high performance replacement engines but he was unsure about MC.

During my search I found this site which sells rebuilt engines.
http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/...l?p_prodid=501
this link leads to a high performance 3.8 ford engine VIN4.
I just wanted to ask if anyone here has bought engines from this site and whether they are reliable.

Or if anyone can lead me to a good location to get a high performance ford V6.

Why I want more horse you ask?
for a 3500 lb car to only have a 140hp engine... it's time to get an engine that can help me travel up a hill at more than 50 mph on the highway (with no passengers)

Thanx in advance for any leads.
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post #2 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 12:54 AM
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I guess it all depends on how much work you want to do. You could stay with the 3.8 and buy a built SC 3.8 (coy miller comes to mind) or you can upgrade to the 4.2... but that's a bit harrier of an install.. or you could scrap your entire drive train and go with the 4.6 (PI, NPI or DOHC).

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post #3 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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I would rather stick with the 3.8 - for gas mileage.
As to Coy miller.... that is definitely what I'd love to have. a Stage 1 SC v-6.
They sound great!
Unfortunately that is slightly over my monetary limit by about 1500 dolars.
The horsepower is definitely desirable although more than I need. I'm looking for around 300 to 320 max. and a minimum of 250.
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post #4 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Romstar
I'm looking for around 300 to 320 max. and a minimum of 250.

For $1500?
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post #5 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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oh no, the engine I was looking at at cory miller.com was worth $6175 (assembled and dyno'ed)
That price was 1500 over my limit.

Although if you know where I can get a 300hp engine for 1500 lead the way
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post #6 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:32 AM
 
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Sorry, I can't read!.

Last edited by Matt S.; 01-07-2004 at 01:47 AM.
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post #7 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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what I mean is that I'm look for an engine within the
1800 and 4000 dollar range that will have good performance. (not racing by any means)

Of course I will modify the car in order to accept the added horsepower... brakes, driveshaft etc.
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post #8 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 04:04 AM
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I really doubt you're gunna find 250 easily compatable ponies for that kind of money.. atleast not out of a 3.8. Now... if you were gunna go witht he 4.6 you could just buy a PI 4.6 and be done with it.

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post #9 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 10:25 AM
 
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There aren't really any built v6 engines that don't cost an arm and a leg.

If you want power and are going to stick with a V6 get the split port heads and intake from a 2000 up mustange.

Splitport Upgrade: $500 40hp
P&P heads and intake: $1000 40hp?
Camshaft: $300 20hp
Underdrive Pullies: $100 10hp
Roller Rockers: $300 10hp
Chip and GT MAF: $400 10hp. Not so much for power, but to make it run right.
Exahust: $500 10hp

Now take that price and double it, because something always comes up.

Now I know you're looking for an already built engine, but if you have a good mechanic these things should take him now time.

If you need more information do a search in the fourm because there is a whole lot of info on this.
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post #10 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 02:50 PM
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Um....
My 4.6s get nearly as good mileage as my 3.8 in the real world. By the time you mod a 3.8 for that kind of performance, you will need to run premium and likely won't get nearly the mileage of a PI 4.6
You will have a lot of money in that 3.8 too.
But, with a 4.6 you would need to get a tranny, wiring harness, computer... I would find a wrecked bird as a donor for this. That way you would have everything including an 8.8 rear end. I have just what you need by the way. look at it here Wanna buy it?
With a 4.2 you have some of the same issues except you can keep your tranny which you should build to handle the xtra horses.
How about a 5.0 swap? Harness, computer, keep your tranny and build it. Not as good mileage, but much better high performance parts availability.
When you say 250 hp are you talking flywheel or rear wheel?
Are you trying to do this NA?

Good luck with it whatever you decide.

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post #11 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 03:08 PM
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dollar for dollar with a 93 either stay with what you have or find a wrecked 93 bird or cat with a 302, they also get about the same milage. and buy the whole car! then youll have all needed parts to complete the swap.

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post #12 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 05:06 PM
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Wow I'm surprised no one has mentinoed www.supersixmotorsports.com crate engines or rotating assemblies yet. Check out their fully built engines. Also, consider finding a 98+ 4.2 short block out of an f-150 and swap it directly. It's a direct swap except for a chip that's needed to do a little tuning.

a 4.6, 5.0, or 3.8sc swap might be more work than you are looking for. I'm kind of tired of hearing about doing engine swaps to the v8's. These days there are much more affordable and easier solutions to get more power. PJ4.2L has a 4.2 in his bird and is making somewhere around 190rwhp. which isn't bad for just a slightly modded v6. Racecougar did a 99+ mustang v6 split-port engine swap into his 94 bird and I'm not sure of his horse power rating but it's around 180-190rwhp also.

If you need any more info I'll fill you in on what I can.

-Thomas

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post #13 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 09:50 PM
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it goes back to his price limit though too, for the money he has to spend, he could find a a nice used 3.8 with decent miles or buy a whole car, take what he needs and sell the rest off. and not that im against building a 6 , but for cost effectiveness, their engines go way past his price limit. he couldget some of the hardware though

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post #14 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 10:22 PM
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I just wanted to get one thing written and perfectly clear:

Gas mileage is a function of HORSEPOWER-- not displacement.

PJ

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post #15 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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so much info

My basic plan is to increase the horsepower in order to have a reliable ride up those hills (ex: the grapevine - route to los angeles) It hurts to hear my V6 struggle up the hill.
I'm not in search of being able to pop off the line as quickly as possible but being able to sustain speed going up a hill without pushing the engine so hard... as is with the V6 i have.
After reading all your posts, I think I will stick with a V6 3.8L.
I prefer the 3.8L just for the reduced work needed compared to that of a V-8 or 4.2. (correct me if I'm wrong please)

I am currently stuck between getting one of the fully built V6's at supersix motors or coy miller
and
just getting a new V6 and purchasing the Bolt-ons.

This is what is floating in my head at the moment... but keep it coming
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post #16 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 11:22 PM
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well I know roller rockers would help you out a bit. I know they really helped my passing power on the highway and interstate so those would probably do you some good.

The 4.2v6 is the same engine as the 3.8v6 with a longer stroke. If you find a short block at a junkyard you could put it directly into your car with a few minor custom things like a 99+ mustang oil pan.

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post #17 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 11:23 PM
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oh, and coy millers engines are not the same as the 3.8 NA. You would need a donor car to get all the wiring and computer and gauge cluster out of to swap into your car and I know from talking to other people that swapping to an sc engine can be a GIANT pain in the @$$
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post #18 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 12:12 AM
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Romstar, HP is not really what you're looking for for that last stretch of the 5. Torque is what you really want. Luckily for you, the 3.8 has a fair amount of torque in stock form... approx. 215 lb-ft. Find out what kind of gear ratio you have. Switching to a 3.55 final drive ratio will help you stay in power-band without compromising gas mileage. It may be cheaper than an engine swap if you can keep your current one.

BTW, the 4.2 is a dream come true for the grapevine. I've driven from LA to Sacramento and back four times in the last three months. AC on, sub box and full cargo load and overdrive? No prob. Torque is actually better in the lower RPMs on the 4.2 than the 4.6.

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post #19 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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I see...
Maybe getting the 4.2L I can purchase the bolt-ons later?
As you said, the 4.2 would be an easy fit onto the MN12? (with added chip tuning)
Now how bout the long and short blocks... I was looking on motorcraft for the available sizes. Which would you suggest I stick with... I am uncertain what my stock v6 is.
Now the transmission i have is new. As my mechanic explained to me, it is the newer model which is more powerful than what I originally had... I didn't ask the model unfortunately.


In regards to the swap... the Transmission and engine should be able to work?
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post #20 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 01:14 AM
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they'll work as long as you use the flex plate from your 3.8 block.

The difference between a longblock and short block is that the long block comes with heads. the short block usually only has the internals like crank, rods, pistons, and usually a cam. You'd want the short block because the 4.2 heads aren't the same as yours. You'd need to reuse everything from your 3.8 and then swap the short block in.

Not sure what he means by newer model transmission. You have an AOD and you can't just upgrade to a different transmission without a lot of hard work involved. Maybe it was and AOD from a 5.0 or supercoupe

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post #21 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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The tranny is an AOD but as to whether it's a 5.0 or 3.8... not sure.
I have to call them later.
I spoke with my Mechanic (who didnt actually change the transmission - my mistake)
but I discussed with him the possiblity of swapping in a 4.2L.
His only concerns pertained to the Smog and the ramifications of putting an engine that was not an option on this particular model. With a new engine it may output different results.
He did state that the possiblity of swapping in the 5.0L may be a less risky solution since the 5.0L was an available option for my model.
Of course he stated that he hasn't really dealt with engine swaps but it is concern he has for me.

I would imagine that if I swapped in a 5.0 liter much more work would be needed to have the car adgust to this added weight and strength?
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post #22 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 02:24 PM
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Romstar,

If I were choosing between the 4.2L or a 5.0L, I'd go the 4.2L. PJ who did the sticky at the top of this category dropped in a 4.2L in a 94. You are only a year back. The 4.2L is a Mustang option in later years. Just PM PJ. I'm sure he'd love to help you out.

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post #23 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 03:12 PM
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Just to clarify, the 4.2 was never an option on Mustangs.

Although I haven't gone through the CA referee yet for my swap (I'm avoiding it), this is what I know: If the engine you are putting in your car is NEWER than the model in your car, and it has all of the original emissions equipment and passes the sniffer, you should be able to get the car approved by the ref. Then he will give you a sticker for your door jamb that tells the smog guys what to look for.

Since you would be putting a short-block in with your original heads and intake, there is virtually no way of visually telling whether you have a 4.2 or 3.8 in there. Just don't tell the smog guy. You will most likely pass the sniffer as well as you did before the swap.

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post #24 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 03:55 PM
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Yeah what PJ said hehe.

And I'd tell your mechanic what stroking an engine is a pretty common thing to do. And that's all the 4.2 is, is a stroked 3.8. If your mechanic has never done engine swaps I would suggest finding one that has and letting him do it.

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post #25 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all a million times. I really appreciate all of this help.
I finally have a direction to head towards.

My plan will be to swap in a 4.2L.
Over time though I will look into the Bolt-ons available at Supersix motorsports or others similar just to add a little juice. nothing "Racing" inspired.

I've started my search for a engine swap professional in my area, just to see if there is anything else I would need based on what's on my car at the moment (if any parts are too old or what have you).

I am still going to find out more about my tranny... I think it is a 3.8 trans but not sure - need to call the mechanic who installed it.
It sure does have a >kick< when it shifts through the gears which the old one did not.

Before goin for the engine, I will be getting better brakes, followed by a new drive shaft. That is all I have planned at the moment.
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post #26 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 04:26 PM
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i dont think id worry about the drive shaft unless your planning on removing the speed limiter with a performance chip and planning on sustaining 100mph on a regular basis.

64 ford galaxie -FE powered beast!- sleeping giant
69 cougar standard- 347/c6 -efi restomod, heidts prog 4 link heavily modified front, custom strutrods boxed lowers rollerperches 620 lowering springs! meier shock tower brace
96 f150 supercab lifted beast! 351 powered beast
87 shasta roadmaster 29ft travel trailer- pimpdaddy camping!
mn12 less!
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post #27 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 06:27 PM
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Romstar,

Did you put in another AOD or a 4R70W? If it was the 4R70W, I'd bet it was JModded.

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post #28 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 06:33 PM
 
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You don't need to worry about the drive shaft untill you put new gears in it or are going to repatadely go down the highway at 120 mph. Basicly anything that will keep your RPM's above 4000 for any length of time.

I think the 4.2 will be a good swap. Will just the 4.2 bottom will be good look into getting some spit-port action. Since your going to be tearing it down might as well do it right. PJ used the truck intake, but I'm sure you could just use the mustang intake and avoid having to cut your hood.

Hey would some headers from the `96 up be a good addition for him also?

I doubt that a 4rw70 was put in because that would mean upgrading the computer and all other types of headaches. It probably just has a shift kit in it.

Another thing that will get you up that hill nobody has mentioned are some gears. 3.55 or some 3.73 will help out, although if you do any major highway driving you will lose a few MPG. Also if you're pulling the engine look into a higher stall torque converter.
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post #29 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 06:52 PM
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The problem with the mustang upper intake, is that it necessitates the use of DIS, which his car does not have. He'd have to wire it in and use an EEC from a 93 SC. It's not extremely difficult to do, but is time consuming and definitely quite a bit of wiring. Ask me, I did it on my 94 Splitport LX. However, the benefit of the mustang upper intake is that it will clear the hood, as already mentioned. I had to make and modify a few brackets to get everything to clear.

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post #30 of 102 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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I know that the transmission installed is an AOD.
I am positive, that's what I was told the first time I called the mechanic who put it in.
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