3.8 Taurus v/s 3.8 T-bird - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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3.8 Taurus v/s 3.8 T-bird

I am getting ready to purchase a 93 taurus sedan with a 3.8 engine and 98k on it and was wondering how they stacked up against a similiarly equipped bird. Its got moderate rear end damage but i'm only paying $250 so i might just buy it and hit it with nitrious until it blows(i'm thinking about a 150hp shot lol!).I know they're considerably lighter then a bird and I was just curious if anyone had any input on the subject.

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 03:53 AM
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They aren't as quick as us. Though I do believe they share an upper intake manifold with us.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 04:11 AM
 
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IMO a Taurus and a Tbird with the 3.8 should be comparable. They both have the same hp and torque ratings and the Taurus is lighter. Very close if not the same performance head to head.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 04:55 PM
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Wrong blackcat94, the only difference between the motors is the upper intake manifold

I'd hit it with 50 then work upto a 75 or 100. 150 would blow the motor your first run at a track and then it would be worthless.

-Thomas

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 09:56 PM
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Hmm... a 93 Taurus sedan would make a good daily driver hehe... just kidding.. ok, so not really but Taurus' aren't all bad. My sister has an 88 with well over 100k miles (maybe even close to 200k?) and it's still pretty dependable. She hasn't had any major problems with it.

If you are going for a daily driver, then I'd go for it. If your looking to mod it and make a sleeper, may want to consider the SHO. Not really sure what your intention is with it.

-Andy "Melon"

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Since its only $250 i just want to fix it(about $100)and see what she can do before it blows up. I plan on some exhaust work and maybe some of the other 3.8 engine tricks(NOS for sure). it might be a daily driver but that wouldnt be nearly as fun!I think i can get it into the thirteens before it burns to the ground.

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
Wrong blackcat94, the only difference between the motors is the upper intake manifold
Well any 3.8L Taurus hood I've looked under (not that many, but...) seemed to have exactly the same upper intake manifold as our 3.8's, judging by looks only.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat94


Well any 3.8L Taurus hood I've looked under (not that many, but...) seemed to have exactly the same upper intake manifold as our 3.8's, judging by looks only.
Well I'm telling you you're wrong.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 11:00 AM
 
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thomas, you forgot another difference (though, im almost sure the taurus intake nearly the same if not the same).. the blocks are different. the FWD trans has a different bolt pattern than the aod/4r70w has. but they still suffer for the same headgasket problems. -greg
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 11:49 AM
 
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ive been told they suffer trans problems when you put any kind of power to them. My whole family drives tauruses, grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles. Our family reunions look like Taurus club meets.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 11:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnNaas
My whole family drives tauruses, grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles. Our family reunions look like Taurus club meets.
half my roommates have bubble tauri.... while about a dozen or more of my friends have various tauri, not to mention a good portion of the people at my apartment complex have tauri as well. oh, and some sables, basically the same thing. so on some days, it could look like a taurus/sable club meet around here. -greg
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 12:37 PM
 
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The only difference between a T-bird 3.8 and a Taurus 3.8 is the block and the exhauste manifolds. You could only get the 3.8 from i think around 89 up until 95 in the Taurus.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Its had new head gaskets put on less then a year ago and the transmission has 30k on it so its mechanically sound, for right now at least.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 03:41 PM
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Yeah I know the tranny bolt pattern was different but it wasn't really relevant to the situation so I didn't include it, sorry for any confusion.

And yes, the upper manifold is different, does no one believe me? Measure the runners on the tbird's 3.8 then measure the runner length on the taurus upper manifold. They are shorter on the taurus to clear the hood.

I think exhaust manifolds being different is pretty much implied, plus they are not part of the engine.

-Thomas

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 04:54 PM
 
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Well Thomas you could be right but i really don't think you are so i will measure the intake on my T-bird and my Taurus. I'll let you know if it's the same.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 05:12 PM
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Here's some more info I found on the difference in engines.

FWD 3.8L models have a balance shaft, the RWD models do not. Ford decided to omit the balance shaft and instead put huge, rubbery, fluid filled motor mounts on the RWD models. Because of this, there are minor differences in the cam setup, and major differences in the block. (Openings not bored, oil passages slightly different.)

-Thomas

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-08-2004, 05:14 PM
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Here's a post where Flex (very knowledgable 3.8 guy, also makes performance 3.8 parts) talks about the taurus intake being different

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...=taurus+intake

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...=taurus+intake

-Thomas

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 12:04 AM
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Any proof yet?

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 11:05 AM
 
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To tell the truth Thomas it's been -18 *C here for the past week and i just didn't think it was important enough for me to freeze to death to prove or disprove. But I will check today or tomorrow and either way i will post the results.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadianthunder
To tell the truth Thomas it's been -18 *C here for the past week and i just didn't think it was important enough for me to freeze to death to prove or disprove. But I will check today or tomorrow and either way i will post the results.
Oh it's worth death providing vital info for a mass of people is always worth death. Let us all know whenever you get a chance.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one." Spock

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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 10:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas


Oh it's worth death providing vital info for a mass of people is always worth death. Let us all know whenever you get a chance.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one." Spock

-Thomas

A wise man once said and I quote.

"Yeah but it is DAMM COLD." Canadianthunder

In other news I swear on the life of my transmission I will check tomorrow.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-12-2004, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadianthunder



A wise man once said and I quote.

"Yeah but it is DAMM COLD." Canadianthunder

In other news I swear on the life of my transmission I will check tomorrow.
Oooooo I'm holding you to that
-Thomas

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 01:29 AM
 
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The 3.8L Taurus is geared lower than the 3.8L birds, not to mention it is quite lighter. I've raced a local 1992 3.8L Thunderbird LX with my '95 Taurus, and it wasn't even close. I toasted him pretty good..

I've torn down many 3.8L engines in the past, the cams between FWD and RWD are the same, the RWD just has a spacer instead of a balancer drive gear. Also the RWD balancer bores are unfinished. The only RWD 3.8L that came with a balance shaft was the 1988 Thunderbird/cougar. 1988 was the first year the 3.8L was available in the taurus/sable, and was the first year of fuel injection too.

Not sure on the runner lengths, but I know the taurus has one extra vacuum tap than the tbird (er maybe its vice versa)

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 08:17 AM
 
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Toasted!? I was burnt to a crisp! The Taurus had me just after the initial roll. While the T-Bird fells quicker the Taurus pulls a little faster. Even tough its slower I would take out the Taurus any day in the handling category. What about the pattern on the upper intake, can the two be swapped? I have a spacer that was going onto my 3.8, can it be installed on the FWD 3.8? Can the balance shaft be adapted into the RWD block? If the 5-spd in the SHO is the same as the 5-spd Taurus, could the SHO motor be installed into the bird?
Thomas, would you want to write up a listing of all the differences and similarities between the two?

---Max

Looking to port the one on my brothers Lincoln, need to swap mine onto it for the time in-between. Spacer will go with the Lincoln. And yes, I have a band-saw to cut her open. Should I port the T-Bird or the Lincoln intake for the Conntenetial?

Last edited by Mickey; 01-13-2004 at 10:56 AM.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 10:06 AM
 
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The 5 speed's are different in the SHO, I've seen people put the SHO engine in Ford Rangers, and they had to use an Aerostar bellhousing, with a T5 manual transmission, as well as some other modifications.

The SHO engine is a marvel, I used to own a 1991 SHO. I think the Thunderbird is a little too heavy for that engine though. IT makes the same torque as the n/a 3.8L, but has considerably more hp. If someone could lighten up the Thunderbird, THEN throw a SHO motor in, I think it would be a blast. My SHO had a LPM (chip basically), and underdrive pullies, and I could wrap that thing out to 8k rpm if I wanted.

Don't feel bad Max, that just means you have to hop it up some more, hehe..

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 10:46 AM
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"the cams between FWD and RWD are the same" - 92bird

How cam you tell the cam grinds are different just by looking at them with the naked eye?

Yes you can swap the 3.8 taurus intake onto the tbird. 92bird is right in there there is a difference in vacuum taps. You may have to plug or add one. I'm not sure what adding a taurus intake to the bird would do. since the runners are shorter and you're adding a spacer it might just cancel itself other than the heat reduction.

I'd be happy to write up all the differences. I'll start on it tonight after I get home from school and check out whitecoug's cat for a bit. I'll post it in the Work In Progress forum.

-Thomas

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 11:30 AM
 
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Well in saving my tranmission from the vengence of an angry god I am forced to humble myself. Taurus intake manifold from plenum edge to throttle body flange 14.5 inches, T-bird intake manifold from plenum edge to throttle body flange15.25 inches.

Oh and Thomas the cam can be quite easily check for lift and duration in a couple ways. One being check the specs with ford, and two (well number two will just give you the lift) being a micrometre.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 12:25 PM
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Your transmission shall be spared...this time

Thanks for the info I can put that in the write up. Do you happen to know the cam specs of both engines from a reliable source just to verify? If there are any differences at all it'd be good for the write up. If the cam specs are different even if by one duration, I think it's worth writing about. There may be a small difference that can't be seen by the eye.

Thanks for the helpful info

-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
2003 SVT Focus: - SCT X3 tuner

Last edited by Thomas; 01-13-2004 at 12:39 PM.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 12:52 PM
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Write up is done unless Canadianthunder or 92bird have more to add?

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...092#post270092

-Thomas

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-13-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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There is a tech writeup somewhere about how the 3.8L changed each year in existance, I'll see if I can find it...

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