1996 3.8 LX --->'93 5.0 Mustang engine - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-11-2004, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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1996 3.8 LX --->'93 5.0 Mustang engine

is this possible? I have a 1994/1996 ( the title says 1994, but when i check the VIN # on the car itself, it comes up as 1996 ) LX 3.8...I also have two 93 5.0 mustangs that a friend crashed..egine..tranny..headers..all good..would it be possible to swap the 3.8 for the 5.0 in my Bird?...any technical articles? cost? etc etc etc?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 03:39 AM
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It it but like everything else it will take some work, if you're up for it. Might want to check the smog laws, some states you're not allowed to install an older model year engine in to a newer one.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 04:03 AM
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I don't think that's a good swap for you. If you had a 93, it would be, but the law is a major obstacle, as Rodeo Joe said. Two more obstacles are your car's computer and tranny. Your car's computer works with a 4R70W tranny, which is electronically controlled. I don't know if you can make it work with an AOD, which has no electronics. Also, a 4R70W doesn't bolt to a 5.0. So I think you would need a 5.0 engine, the AOD tranny, and a 5.0 computer and harness, at least.

Can you sell a 5.0 and buy a 4.6 with it? That would be easier.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 04:08 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 3.8 and the 5.0 have the same bell housing pattern? I thought they did.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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well I have the 5.0 engine ( 93 ) stock....the manual tranny, racing headers and harnass..we took em all off the trashed mustang.

a mechanic was the one who told me to swap it...he said it would work with some slight modification and parts to my 94 bird...but now it might be that my bird is a 96...the manual and lock code card all say 94...but when the car parts dealer punches my vin # thats on the car...not the sticker in the computer..it comes up as a 96..I realized this when i bought parts for a tune up and some that head that the 6 wires plug into...on mine is square and the dealer gave me a round one with six plugs...weird.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by S_Mazza
Also, a 4R70W doesn't bolt to a 5.0.

Why not? The 3.8L and 5.0L share the same bellhousing bolt pattern, as Rodeo Joe mentioned.

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 3.8 and the 5.0 have the same bell housing pattern? I thought they did.
I'm pretty sure that you are right. The trannies for a 3.8 and a 5.0 have the same bell housing. A friend of mine took an AOD out of a 3.8 t-bird and put it in his 5.0 Mustang
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bull


I'm pretty sure that you are right. The trannies for a 3.8 and a 5.0 have the same bell housing. A friend of mine took an AOD out of a 3.8 t-bird and put it in his 5.0 Mustang
Is the tranny still running? Because it probably won't for very long.

Anyway yes, a tranny from an 89-97 3.8 or 3.8sc will fit on a 5.0 block. A 4r70w from a 94-97 tbird will NOT fit on a 5.0, they have a different bellhousing.

And how in the world would a 4.6 swap be easier than a 5.0 swap? He'd need a different 4r70w transmission for the bolt pattern. Plus they're newer which generally means more cost. And plus he already has the 5.0

-Thomas

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 03:41 PM
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Is the tranny still running? Because it probably won't for very long.
It didn't do very well, but that's because he can tear-up any transmission out there. Anyway, he put a shift kit in it and it seems to be doing fine now.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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what i'm asking is...could I swap my automatic 3.8 for the 5.0...a simple yes or no would do.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 06:08 PM
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the 4r70w does bolt on to the 302s, the 94-95 GTs have them

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 08:03 PM
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YES


mn12xr7: the 89-93 5.0's, 94-95 GT's, and 89-97 3.8's have 6 bolt bell housings and the 4.6 has 8 bolt bell housing.

-Thomas

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 09:15 PM
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Thomas,

I fairly certain that mn12xr7 is saying that a 3.8L 4R70W transmission will bolt up to a 5.0L engine. I don't think anyone is trying to say that a 4.6L 4R70W transmission will bolt up to a 5.0L engine.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by racecougar
Thomas,

I fairly certain that mn12xr7 is saying that a 3.8L 4R70W transmission will bolt up to a 5.0L engine. I don't think anyone is trying to say that a 4.6L 4R70W transmission will bolt up to a 5.0L engine.

-Rod
I was referring to someone else who had said that swapping to a 4.6 would be easier than swapping to a 5.0. But it appears that post has since been deleted. Oh well. At least the info is there in case someone searches for it, they can find it
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 10:29 AM
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Yeah, your right Rod, the 3.8 will bolt on to the 5.0, how different are the 4r70ws from the 3.8 to the 4.6s, different input shafts???

Thomas I don't know who you are referring to.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 11:24 AM
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I don't believe they have different input shafts because I know of several people who have put mark viii TC's into a 3.8 4r70w. I do know the starter housing is different between the two though. The 3.8 is held on by two bolts and the 4.6 is held on by 3. The 4.6 also has more clutch packs but I think that's obvious, and doesn't really have anything to do with bolting onto another car.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 02:13 PM
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So maybe if he wanted to use the 4.6 4r70w he would need to keep his starter housing and he'd be ok

So Genius just use the tranny you have now

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mn12xr7
So maybe if he wanted to use the 4.6 4r70w he would need to keep his starter housing and he'd be ok

So Genius just use the tranny you have now
no. the 4.6 4r70w has 8 bolts. the 3.8 4r70w has 6.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:24 PM
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well he's putting a 5.0 not a 4.6 right? Not quite sure how many bolts the 5.0 has.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:36 PM
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It doesent really matter if the 4r70w will bolt to 5.0 or not he will not be able to use it 5.0 is OBD I the puter will not support the tranny. the AOD is not controlled by the puter the 4r70w is Controlled by the puter.

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:39 PM
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A computer chip from dennis or apten would fix it easy enough.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
A computer chip from dennis or apten would fix it easy enough.
-Thomas
NO sorry a chip will not work.

73 ranchero with a 89 5.0 EFI HO/AOD
THE PYL !
91 Tbird lx 5.0 swap
GONE 93 5.0 Stang vert
54 Ford Vicky PAXTON SUPERCHARGED 5.0 HO/AOD
86 F250 Diesel 4x4
GONE 89 Aerostar
2003 F350 Super duty
1996 Exploder
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mn12xr7
well he's putting a 5.0 not a 4.6 right? Not quite sure how many bolts the 5.0 has.
Yes a 5.0. And it has 6!

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 5.0 Chero


NO sorry a chip will not work.
Okay then get a frickin computer from a 94-95 GT THEN get a computer chip. I know of several people who have 5.0's with 4r70w's.
-Thomas

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 08:52 PM
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94/5 stangs had AODE and I am pretty sure the its OBD 1 and tranny controls are different than 4r70w's. Maybe their using Explorer 5.0 puters?

73 ranchero with a 89 5.0 EFI HO/AOD
THE PYL !
91 Tbird lx 5.0 swap
GONE 93 5.0 Stang vert
54 Ford Vicky PAXTON SUPERCHARGED 5.0 HO/AOD
86 F250 Diesel 4x4
GONE 89 Aerostar
2003 F350 Super duty
1996 Exploder

Last edited by 5.0 Chero; 02-13-2004 at 09:11 PM.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-13-2004, 09:08 PM
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Any way to answer his question
Yes you can run the mustang drive train. You will need to swap the entire front dress from either a 91/3 MN12 or 94/5 mustang timing cover forward or move the radiator forward about 2 inches. Either stock or aftermarket MN12 5.0 headers not sure but I think oil pan is MN12 only too. You can use the mustang wiring but you will have to splice it into the birds harness or find a 5.0 MN12 harness. It would be a lot easier if you could find a trashed or wreaked 5.0 MN12 and use it for a donor.

73 ranchero with a 89 5.0 EFI HO/AOD
THE PYL !
91 Tbird lx 5.0 swap
GONE 93 5.0 Stang vert
54 Ford Vicky PAXTON SUPERCHARGED 5.0 HO/AOD
86 F250 Diesel 4x4
GONE 89 Aerostar
2003 F350 Super duty
1996 Exploder
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 04:56 AM
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Well, I was wrong. The 4R70W will bolt to the 5.0L. Thank you, everyone, for correcting me on that point.

My basic point is, this is not plug and play. You need an engine, tranny, and computer that will all work together. You can't mix and match at will, unless you want to work like crazy to unify it all.

Not to mention the emissions legality, which may be a huge issue depending on where you live, or will live down the road. (I really don't think swapping in a 5.0 will fly, because it is (A) older than the car and (B) not offered in that year of the T-Bird.)

Thomas, my post is still there, and I still think the 4.6 is probably an easier and more logical swap. (For reasons stated by me and 5.0 Chero.)

Genius, it's possible, but I don't recommend it unless you really really want to do it.

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-15-2004, 01:27 PM
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Ah I must've missed it when looking over the thread for it.

Well I'll still have to disagree and say a 5.0 swap would be easier. If he swaps to a 4.6 he'll need a completely new transmission from a 4.6 vehicle, all wiring, and the engine. He's already got a 5.0 engine, which is a big part of the cost. Plus once he's done I think he'll find it's much easier and cheaper to find aftermarket parts for it. Heck, Ebay is the ultimate store for 5.0 parts.

And he's wondering about a 5.0 swap, not looking for alternative, I know it's not bad to offer other suggestions, but I think we could also concentrate on what he really wants.

-Thomas

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