question about my pushrods...and valve springs - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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question about my pushrods...and valve springs

hey guys as some of you know im re installing my heads and up and i just got the heads torqued down, so directly after that i started the pushrod/coupler (thing that compresses the spring) install, my question is, 2 of them arent sitting right, they compressed my valve spring much more than the others, the pushrod is set at the bottom and is in its little cup at the top(bottom of spring compressor) but they just kept on going and now they have the spring more so compressed than the ALL the others (even on the other side, they went in fine) is this a problem? it just bugged me because they sat funny on there
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 02:36 PM
 
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if you can get a picture, that would help a lot.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 02:38 PM
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its called the cam is pushing on the pushrod,, on maybe the exhaust or intake stroke on the cylinder. try turning the motor over by hand and see what happens.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 03:48 PM
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do you mean valves? The pushrods go in the lifter valley. I'm kinda confused by your wording.
-Thomas

1988 Notch Mustang: - 438W, direct port n2o, t56
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 05:19 PM
 
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thats whats got me screwed up. im thinking he means that the cam is actually holding a valve open, but im freaking confused.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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hahahah, sorry guys, yeah the pushrod goes into the lifter valley but it connects under the metal piece that pushes the valve spring down....thats what im talking about, basically the pushrods are in position and 2 of my valve springs are way more compressed than the other 10

almost like the pusrods are pushing upwards to compress the valve spring

hopefully this is clearer, but who knows, its kinda hard to explain, i wish i had a camera

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 10:02 PM
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He means the rocker arm is pushing down the valve spring. It all depends on where the motor is. If you can turn it to BTDC and then put it all back together. At TDC, nothing should be compressed. If so, then you have either stuck lifters or they are stuck in the lifter bore. Did you get new pushrods? May be to long. Let us know. I would start by putting the motor at TDC.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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no i didnt get new pushrods... aslo if i tear down the motor and dont move the timing chain/belt or distributor, wouldnt i be able to re assemble w/o moving to tdc?
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 12:35 AM
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I always disassemble at TDC so that when I reassemble I dont have to adjust anything but the timing, which if you mark the distributor before you remove it (if needed) you can bolt it all back together and not worry about anything.

If you are not currently at TDC, then the cam is at some point in the lift and is lifting the pushrods, which would cuase some valves to be open. ...by the way, those "metal pieces" that push the valve open are called rockers.

Were you at TDC when you reassembled? If not, some of the valfes will be open. All the rockers should be torqued when they are fully closed. I like the go through each cylinder at a time, rotating the crank, watching the valves, and torquing them when they're both closed, then go through a second time and re-torque/re-check everything.

-Thomas

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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 08:21 AM
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You could do it. Just be very careful to get everything back in order and don't move anything. Should really put it at TDC next time.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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hey guys... ok i have some questions

1. whats the best way to find tdc with the motor tore down... just stick a coat hangar in the spark plug whole until its pushed to the top...#1 i assume?

2. is it an interference motor, and what could be the worse thing to happen buy not moving it to tdc, just way out of timing when i get done? if so i can time it, as long as the pistons down crashon the valves, but the valves are recessed arent they? ir will something else be worse...

also, i drove the car into my driveway and started to tear it down, i just figured tearing it down and building it in the exact same spot would reep the exact same specs it had before, as long as i dont move the crank or anything...

anyway basically as someone stated above 2 of my rocker arms on one head are compressing the spring much further down than the other 4, and all the 6 on the other side are perfect...


thanks guys!
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 03:32 PM
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which springs are compressed? And are they installed on the motor with the rockers bolted on top? You know how a motor operates right? The crank turns the cam, the cam pushes up the lifters and pushrods, which in turn "rocks" the rocker and compresses the valve spring and opens the valve to let in air or let out exhaust. TDC "Top Dead Center" is where the cam is not pushing on any lifters ie: not opening any valves. If your crank and cam are not at TDC then some of the lifters will be raised, and you'll be bolting down the rockers and trying to compress the springs while doing it. You won't get them torqued right this way. Turn it to TDC and bolt down the rockers. You can find TDC by looking down at the harmonic balancer, which is what the crank pulley bolts to. There's a little pointer on the timing cover and you want to turn the crank until the TDC mark lines up with the pointer. That will put you at TDC. If the rockers arent properly torqued at 22ftlbs they will come unscrewed and fall off while you're driving, which in case you can't tell = BAD.
-Thomas

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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thanks soooo much for all of that it really did help, i do know how a motor works and eveything you said was pretty familiar, but on cars im used to they dont have a tdc "label"

so i always had to to turn the crank until the number one piston is all the way to the top, i could usually tell buy sticking a coat hangar down the sparkplug hole or putting a piece of foil over it and when it blew off the piston was at the top, but the way the spark plugs sit in there thats impossible, i will turn the crank tomm and line up tdc, and i will torque down the rocker arms...

the torque wrench is really ****ty, im sure youve all seen one, the cheap ones at autozone, that read the bolt being torqued at 60 when its really like 50 or 70...

this little number. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...360154052&rd=1


once you get the bolt tigtened, you can swing this thing 15 or so degrees either way w/o even moving the bolt just buy waddling the handle... any advice, other than go get a new click one... lol because i already know that
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 03:22 AM
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well as long as youre between 19-22ft lbs for the rockers they'll be fine. It's pretty much just tightening them until you really have to push hard to turn them more, I've torqued my rockers by hand before. The heads, I've got mine torqued to 75ft lbs, I've heard of people only going to 65ft lbs, but this is both with ARP studs. I dont know what the torque is on the bolts. I'd say as long as youre between 70 and 75 you'll be fine.
-Thomas

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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i think my hanes manual called for 56-60 the first time and re torque was 60-65

but...also i was looking and it said the valve cover had to be like 76-100!!! thats crazy tight, seems like those little bolts wouldnt need to be that tight, my rubber gasket is like squishing out all sides, i felt like i was gonna cut thru it
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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also with my heads at like 65... when i crank and put pressure ont the engine, dosent it like torque on the bolt... i know it wont turn it in there for me, but it torques on it real hard?

the headbolts i just took off my lumina were past 150 ft lbs.... and they were factory, sureley they didnt set them at that, they kinda torqued themselves to that....am i wrong?
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 04:09 PM
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Head torque procedure according to FORD
*Brakes out 96 Shop Manaul*

Steps
15 ft-lbs
30
50

"Back off all bolts one at a time two to three revolutions and retighte as follows:"
DO NOT LOOSEN ALL OF THE BOLTS AT THE SAME TIME: ONLY WORK ON ONE BOLT AT A TIME.

Long bolts:
Tighten to 30-36 lb-ft
Rotate an additional 175-185 degrees
Go to next bolt in sequence.

Short bolts:
Tighten to 15-22 lb-ft
Rotate an additional 175-185 degrees
Go to next bolt in sequence.

Front of Enginge
<----
7315
8426

As for the rockers having at TDC is not vitally important just torque them how they are turn the crank a bit retorque, until gone through a whole rotation (ie: stoping evey 120 degrees).
As for the torque wrench, thats why I got the 20-150lb-ft Craftsman, best $80 I spent.

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 08:29 PM
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I'm pretty sure it means 76-100inch lbs.

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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dammit i knew that couldnt be right i went to like 50 ft lbs and cracked the cover anyway i think they just need to be tightend, by hand very tight, btw how do you read inch lbs?
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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also, does the fuel rail have a sepearte wiring harness that im missing or is it all apart of the one i have...i havent got that far, but it didnt look like to many plugs on it, maybe 12-15
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-25-2005, 10:01 PM
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Wireing should be one bundle though the injector plugs are on a seperate limb (if memory serves has injectors, Knock, Engine coolant temp sensor and one or two others).
Honestly i'd just tight the valve covers to the so tight torque (but the torque listed in ft-lbs is 6-8)

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
93 5.0 Tbird
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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like an idiot i didnt "label tag" my injector plugs because all the other ones were already tagged from previous labor, i thought the injector ones were but they werent, how can i get them in the order they belong
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 04:49 PM
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the wiring to them is different for each harness. Get a chiltons manual and it will tell you the wire colors and injector #

Or wait a day so I can grab mine from my parents garage.

-Thomas

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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ok, i guess ill have to wait, because i no one sells a chiltons around here, i have a haynes? ill see if its in there
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 11:07 PM
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If reading my Diagram right

T=1
W=2
BR/Y=3
BR/LB=4
T/LB=5
LG=6
My Haynes lists that for both SC and pre 93 3.8

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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thanks man, i got that figured out its the other plugs i cant find and a couple of hoses, that are running alomg the passenger side, along where my ac ones run
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 03:18 PM
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Vacum hoses arn't exteremly important as long as they get to the intake. Please tell me you didn't depressureize the A/C

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

93 SC Tbird
MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
93 5.0 Tbird
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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i didnt depresurize the ac....
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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i can barely put togather some wiring clips and hoses what makes you think i could de-pressurize the AC

however i cant get this ac to mount up so i been gettin pissed off throwin it around its little cubical of area there in front of the radiator, ive been waiting for one of those hoses to bust and spray freon in my eyes seeing as how those are the only thing holdin that damn 10lb thing up
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-28-2005, 10:43 AM
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depressurizing the AC means unbolting any hoses going to it, which releases the pressure and also releases the VERY toxic r12 into the atmosphere...which is very illegal.

Now all you have to do is find that accessory bracket and bolt the AC on to that. Do you understand this?

-Thomas

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