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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Mass Airflow Swap

Hey, quick question. When I build my motor (30lb. injectors) can I swap in a 75mm Mustang GT mass airflow sensor and have it work?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 04:30 PM
 
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what are you doing to your 3.8 that requires 30 pound injectors
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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turbo........hahaha don't worry i'm basically rebuilding EVERYTHING. engine, trans, suspension, etc.... i'm calling it project turbobird
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 06:29 PM
 
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you might want to recheck your calculations then... Depending on how much power you are expecting, you can't go by v8 standards. At a minimum, I have to use 22lb injectors for my engine that I am building and it will be without power adders.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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hmmm well what would you suggest for a fully built motor pushing 10 to 15psi of boost with a possibility of boost down the road. stock i got 14lb. right now
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 12:43 PM
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30# injectors will get you to around 300crank HP on a turbo motor. (~250ish at the rear tires) Around 6-7psi MAX off a turbo.

My 42# are running at about 65% duty cycle making 255rwhp off a vortech supercharger, about the equivalent of 28# injectors @ 100% duty cycle (which is bad) you want to stay under 90% duty cycle for a GOOD safety margin.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 02:16 PM
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Rancher, how do you figure the size of injectors you'll need for a project?

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:19 PM
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there are some calculators out there, but when you look at enough combo's other people are running (v6power.net is a good place!) you can just start picking injector sizing. A supercharger running the same HP as a turbo will always need mroe injector because the supercharger is a power robber with the amount of drag it makes. A turbo is run off the engine's exhaust, qhich requires no power to produce, so its more efficient and uses less fuel to reach the same power level. For instance, Julian with a twin screw SC'd 95 tbird had 42's and maxed them out at 300rwhp and somewhere between 17-20psi, then stepped up to 60's, but hasnt been dyno'd since the injector upgrade. Justin with a twin turbo v6 mustang on factory longblock dyno'd at 450rwhp at 17psi while still having less than 90% duty cycle on the injectors.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:25 PM
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OH but to answer your question, in order to have a larger injector size, you NEED a chip tuned for it. all that calibrated MAF crap is bs. Transfer functions and amounts of air that are let through can only truly be tuned correctly with a chip/eec reflash and in the best situation, a dyno tune. And BECAUSE you're getting a chip for the computer, then you might as well upgrade the MAF while you're at it. Dont look at maf's for upgrading injectors, but look at needing a chip to run larger injectors and getting a larger maf while you're there.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, i knew i needed a tune. i'll just stick with a large maf, and try to figure out a set of injectors. i plan on getting a performance automatic to replace my 4r70w (very open to suggestions as to who to get one from), a fully built motor (supercoupe block and crank), and a single turbo set up with ceramic fins and a intercooler with my stock 3.27 diff., along with suspension upgrades. i hope to push about 10 to 15psi. max. i'm still very much in the planning stage. so i'm open to all sorts of suggestions. but as far as injectors i could use some advice :-)
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:42 PM
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you'll wanta decent sized turbo to efficiently create 10-15psi. a t3/t4 would be excellent. I've seen guys hit 320rwhp on 10psi. And what most people have found, is that for every 1psi of boost, you usually gain around 20rwhp on the Ford v6, which is pretty awesome. 320rwhp is FAST. If you've never ridden in a fast car, and you've been in your v-6 for a while, 320rwhp will make you insanely giddy for a long long time to come.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:46 PM
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What kinda of boost would you need to push with a Vortech for those numbers? or is the 20rwhp per psi of boost good for s/c's and turbos?

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:48 PM
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oh, probably around 12-13 would be my guess. The thing about centrifugals is that they create drag, and also dont provide boost until about 3000psi. Though the boost thing can be eliminated with a high stall converter, Ive ridden in centrifugal charged cars and in my opinion, would appreciate a roots or turbo setup more.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar_guy04
What kinda of boost would you need to push with a Vortech for those numbers? or is the 20rwhp per psi of boost good for s/c's and turbos?
hp/psi is pretty relative, but thats about the norm everyone has found on turbo setups. supercharger gains/psi would be less since they not only add power, but take power to turn.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:53 PM
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Hmmm, well, I've got a lot of time to figure out where I want to go with the engine (not touching it for another 3 years). this is some food for thought.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 08:57 PM
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well here's another fact to consider. After considerable testing, turbos have been found to produce more torque per psi than any other method of forced induction.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2005, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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thomas, yeah its going to be one sick ride. yeah t3/t4 is exactly what i have been looking at. so it'll be REALLY interesting to see what this baby pumps out by the time im done. i would like to add a nitrous shot on the intercooler down the road to get even more. but for now im gonna focus on drivetrain, suspension, and building the motor before i put the turbo on. that oughta be enough to drain my funds for a long time! i hope to have everything but the turbo done and in by next year this time. hopefully turbo by the following january. its more a matter of if i get this new job which would almost tripple my income. i'm considering asking a moderator to start a sticky on the turbocharging forum so people can keep track of "project turbobird". right now i'm just planning and pricing things out. so i think it would be awesome to get everyones opinions on different parts and vendors. and suggestions on like cam, injectors, etc... i just REALLY want to see a small block 3.8 T-bird with insane horsepower that will blow any ricer or mustang away.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-04-2005, 12:07 PM
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I'm at around 14rwhp/1PSI on my engine with the vortech supercharger, will be even more with the Stroker in there (new 4.2L crank and .040 over SC block)

And The vortech makes for a fun ride, I have around 3psi @ 3000rpm where the converter stalls at I don't see how a roots blown car would be more fun, I have more then enough power to turn my 255/45's into tire smoke all the way through 1st easy.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-04-2005, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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how much RWHP are you making rancher? im not dissing superchargers at all though. they are pretty mean machines. it's just more fun if it's a bigger challenge. and since next to nobody has a turbo 3.8. i want to be one of the first. :-)

by the way, do you know who the moderator is for the turbo forum?

Last edited by Thomas; 10-04-2005 at 09:41 PM.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-04-2005, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rancherlee
I'm at around 14rwhp/1PSI on my engine with the vortech supercharger, will be even more with the Stroker in there (new 4.2L crank and .040 over SC block)

And The vortech makes for a fun ride, I have around 3psi @ 3000rpm where the converter stalls at I don't see how a roots blown car would be more fun, I have more then enough power to turn my 255/45's into tire smoke all the way through 1st easy.
I'd like to go for a ride sometime ranch I've driven Julians car and when his 400rwtq peaks at 2000rpm, it deffinetely makes for a fun ride as well. In fact, so fun I was afraid to give it full gas for the entire time I drove it. I did give it part throttle in 3rd gear, which made it shift to first, and put me sideways for a while until I crapped my pants and let off.
-Thomas

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