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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Stupid questions?

Ok heres a couple of stupid questions for you guys. Just don't be too hard on me.

1) Why are our cars so slow? I know there are simple answers, such as low power numbers, wieght and other things. But what are some key items that really hinder the cars performance.

2) Why such a large torque number for an underpowered V6? 130hp and 215ft-lbs just doesn't add up for me.

3) What is a good target number for decent hp? I'm not looking for a track car by any means, just something good at the stop light and good on the highway for passing. What are some of your horsepower numbers?

All input is greatly appreciated, I'm really interested in the MN12 platform and want to have a decent car when spring and summer comes around again.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU_Q
1) Why are our cars so slow? I know there are simple answers, such as low power numbers, wieght and other things. But what are some key items that really hinder the cars performance.
You nailed it. The car is underpowered for its weight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU_Q
2) Why such a large torque number for an underpowered V6? 130hp and 215ft-lbs just doesn't add up for me.
I wouldn't call 215ft-lbs a large amount of torque. The main reason why the hp level is so low is that the engine simply doesn't breathe well in the upper rpms. With better heads/intake, the engine makes quite a bit more power without sacrificing torque (splitport).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU_Q
3) What is a good target number for decent hp? I'm not looking for a track car by any means, just something good at the stop light and good on the highway for passing. What are some of your horsepower numbers?
The last time I had my splitport Tbird on a dyno, it made 165 rwhp and 198 rwtq. With 3.73's, it isn't a bad daily driver. It's enough to have fun with, and certainly much better than the stock singleport 3.8L.

-Rod

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 10:02 AM
 
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well, i'm shooting for 200 hp and 275 ftlbs of torque.... not sure how realistic that will be, but it'll be close i think

RIP Joel Bender and Preston Smith. The world will never be the same without you.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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I have looked into doing the split port swap but thats a little too involved for my time and resources right now. I like to think of my car as a daily driven project. I plan on porting the intake, then getting a CAI and exhaust and maybe if I had some time I would order a set of ported heads.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 01:04 AM
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I don't mean to come of sounding too dumb either but how easily can it be to do something like split porting or other things like that? I love my car and probably know more about cars than the average person but, when you get into the nitty gritty of it all, I don't know what to do. I'd like to know but I would probably have more money than time. As such, what sort of professional places, if any, could do stuff to the engine and be reliable about it?

I'm basically like you, ECU_Q. I want a little more oomph but nothing too drastic. I've gotten over 28MPG on the highway before so it's not like I would want to go and sacrifice that in favor of trying to make the engine as powerful as possible.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN12Fan
I don't mean to come of sounding too dumb either but how easily can it be to do something like split porting or other things like that?
The splitport swap is a relatively involved head/intake swap. It isn't super easy, but there's enough info here on this site to let you make the decision whether or not you can do it. Just do a search on "splitport".

-Rod

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1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 05:16 PM
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i think the turbo coupes have decent power for how old they r.
heres the dish on the 87 & 88. i ahve an 87 and i love it!! i mean its shot but i just love thta car!! im sorry its a lot.

'87-'88 TurboCoupe SPECIFICATIONS

Vehicle Type: Front-engine, rear-drive; 2-door 5-passenger sedan

Engine:

2.3L (2295cc, 140 cu in) 4 cylinder engine

2 valves per cylinder, overhead cam

190 HP with 5 speed trans, 150 HP with automatic trans

Torque 240 @ 3400

8:0:1 compression ratio

Bore and stroke: 3.780" x 3.126" (96.0mm X 79.2mm)

MPEFI injection

Cooling fan turns on at 221 degrees F

Turbocharger:

IHIRHB-52 turbo with integral waste gate

air to air intercooler, dual active air scoopes on hood

intercooler cools air by ~60% on its way to the cylinder head

(denser air=more HP)

Transmission:

Manual: Borg Warner T-5 short throw 5 speed manual trans

Top speeds per gear: 1st - 33mph, 2nd - 56 mph, 3rd - 89 mph,

4th - 131 mph, 5th - 143 mph

Automatic: Ford A4LD - 4 speed automatic with overdrive

Gearing:

3:55 final drive ratio with T5 transmission,

Gear ratios: 1st - 3:97, 2nd - 2:34, 3rd - 1:46, 4th - 1:0, 5th -0:0.8

3:73 with the A4LD auto transmission

8.8" rear end

Miscellaneous Specs:

wheelbase = 104.2"
length = 202.1"
height = 53.4"
width = 71.1"
front tread = 58.1"
rear tread = 58.5"
trunk volume = 14.6 cu.ft.
fuel capacity = 22.1 gal.
weight = 3415 lbs (3419 lbs with AOD trans)
5 passenger capacity
0.36 Cd drag coefficient
steering: 2.4 turns lock to lock, curb to curb circle = 39.4 ft, 15:0:1 on center rack and pinion
firm suspension settings kick in (in ~40ms) with 0.3g or more cornering or braking, when throttle is floored, when boost exceeds 10 psi,
or when speed exceeds 80 mph

Miscellaneous numbers, times, and levels:

1/4 mile - 16.3 seconds @ 84.5 mph
60 mph to 0 mph stopping distance - 138 ft.
0.82 lateral g
700 ft slalom speed average = 61.2 mph
0-30 mph in 2.5 sec, 0-50 mph in 5.9 sec, 0-60 mph in 8.5 sec, 0-70 mph in 11.7 sec, 0-80 mph in 14.5 sec
0-100 ft in 3.2 sec, 0-500 ft in 8.8 sec, 0-1320 ft in 16.3 sec
interior noise: at idle - 54 dBA, 1st gear max - 84 dBA, 70 mph steady - 71 dBA

If your exhaust tip is larger than your cylinder bore, then you are a Ricer.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 09:30 PM
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What does a turbocharged 4 cyl have to do with getting decent power out of a 3.8L NA?

-Rod

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thats a lot faster than I thought they would be, why such a big loss in power from the manual to the automatic?

I'm a big 6cyl fan, its the best of both worlds, not as gas consuming as a V8 but better than a 4 cyl. So thats why I am looking into tuning mine. That and the fact that I thrive on being different.

Thats not saying that I would mind a 5.0 bird though.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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lol. Posted at the same time.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 03:53 AM
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i was just sayign while we were on the spec numbers. i was interested and ecu must have been. but anyway i really dont like v6's. my tc and my 5.0 would beat my brother's 3.8. allthough the 3.8 shuts off later than my 5.0. haha if we were driving and i shut mine down, he would catch up to me but theres nothing wrong with them.

If your exhaust tip is larger than your cylinder bore, then you are a Ricer.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU_Q
I have looked into doing the split port swap but thats a little too involved for my time and resources right now. I like to think of my car as a daily driven project. I plan on porting the intake, then getting a CAI and exhaust and maybe if I had some time I would order a set of ported heads.

that's a good start, you'll deff. see a noticable difference with those mods.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 01:36 PM
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Gears will make a big difference, too.

(Not in horsepower, but in the *fun to drive* factor)

-Rod

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 02:27 PM
 
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where can i get splitport heads at. I'm about to search but this is just incase I don't see it
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 02:48 PM
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Let me put my $.02 here.

First, underdrive pulleys. 2 MPG more in city driving. I love them.

Second. remove your air silencer and put in a K&N filter. Poor man's CAI.

Third, a more aggressive cam. Works wonders with gasket matched heads and intakes.

I am gathering parts for not only the splitport upgrade, but making the motor a 4.2L. I'm not sure but sounds like if I put in a 4.2 crank kit that i'd have to chamfer the block for clearance for the new piston rods. I don't have a machining budget.

I may just gasket match the 2000 Mustang upper and lower intakes I have along with the 97 F-150 heads I have.

In either case, I'm putting larger exhaust valves in the heads. I'm going to 1.5" exhaust valves, but staying with the stock intake valves.

One final thing I'm planning. I'm going to use 1.8 roller rockers and 30# fuel injectors. this will force me to use a chip, but then I'll also delete my EGR.

I'm hoping for 280 HP with this set up. Wish me luck.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 02:49 PM
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Sage88, I found my intakes and heads in eBay Motors auctions. Just follow the categories down to intakes or heads. I've got less than $200 total in the heads and intakes. I'd like to find a 4.2L short block for under $500.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar
Gears will make a big difference, too.

(Not in horsepower, but in the *fun to drive* factor)

-Rod
What kind should I look for. I need to change the U-Joints so I might just change the gears while I'm there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCD
First, underdrive pulleys. 2 MPG more in city driving. I love them.
I thought about that but I already have a system and I plan to make it larger with the addition of some T.V's and maybe a larger amp. What could I do to still get the performance from the pulley's but still maintain enough power to run all that stuff.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECU_Q
What kind should I look for. I need to change the U-Joints so I might just change the gears while I'm there.
3.73's are a good match to the 3.8L. You'll still get decent gas mileage, while receiving a noticable difference in acceleration.

-Rod

Rod @ AzzKicker Cars
[email protected]
90 XR7-The Meth Addict-KB SC'd 5.0L DOHC Stroker
2004 Mustang GT-The Driver-Intake/Exhaust/3.73's
1995 F150 4x4-The Mud Toy-5.0L/4R70W/33's/Warn 8274 Winch
94 LX w/Splitport 3.8L from 2000 Mustang - SOLD
2 - 90 35th Anny Ed SC's
And a TON of parts cars!
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