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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-15-2006, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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possible valves not seating

hey guys, i did the split port swap/4.2L stroke on my 94 cougar. The entire short block was assembled by a local machine shop. here's my question, i have put approx 400miles on this new swap, but i am still blowin oil out my exhaust. im concerned that my valves and rigs aren't seated. is there a visual inspection i can do or does this usually take longer then 400 miles. ive heard several different things, so can anyone help me out???

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-16-2006, 09:20 PM
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when you say blowin oil out the exhaust what exhactly do you mean?

Check the PCV system and see if its got oil in the tubing,, the 3.8/4.2 valve covers are terrible for sucking oil threw the PCV,, the windstar minivans actually have updated valve covers to fix this problem.

make sure you break in with standard oil and not synthetic.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-17-2006, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SplitPortBird
when you say blowin oil out the exhaust what exhactly do you mean?

Check the PCV system and see if its got oil in the tubing,, the 3.8/4.2 valve covers are terrible for sucking oil threw the PCV,, the windstar minivans actually have updated valve covers to fix this problem.

make sure you break in with standard oil and not synthetic.

well first off with the blowin oil, i have a white smoke that constantly putts out the pipes and also have oil that will spit out occasionily. i have a pearl paint job and will find my bumper black after 20-30 minutes of driving. the PCV system has a little bit of oil in it but not bad and i also have BBK valvecovers. the motor is on its second oil change oil standard oil and due for a third soon.

i noticed tonight when i put my new timing light to it that i was 31 degrees advanced, but the weird thing is that if i retard it any more the car will act like it wants to die out and thats at 5-600 RPM. im getting really confused and irritated with this set up.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-17-2006, 01:52 AM
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well its probably 31 degree's advance because the computer is controlling the timing,, I suspect you didnt remove the spout connector first.

your loosing oil I assume (according to dipstick readings?)

Oil is clean not milky right?

Maybe the intake gaskets didnt seat right,, could be sucking oil threw the intake. usually blue smoke is OIL white smoke is water/coolant.

Hows the coolant level,, does it change any?

Are you running catalytic converters? did you have this tuned? what injectors your running. could be a possible rich condition causing the black soot.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-17-2006, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SplitPortBird
well its probably 31 degree's advance because the computer is controlling the timing,, I suspect you didnt remove the spout connector first

No

your loosing oil I assume (according to dipstick readings?)


YES

Oil is clean not milky right?

Not milky, black

Maybe the intake gaskets didnt seat right,, could be sucking oil threw the intake. usually blue smoke is OIL white smoke is water/coolant.

water/Coolant

Hows the coolant level,, does it change any?

did change a little, but due to a water sensor not being tight! fixed now and no problems since

Are you running catalytic converters?

Yes, magnaflow high flow cats

did you have this tuned?

Only by a chip

what injectors your running.

24lb injectors from SCP

could be a possible rich condition causing the black soot.

thats kinda what im thinking too!!
i dont know where to go with this, but i know it cant be impossible to get this thing running right. i want to get it dyno'd and professionally tuned, but cash is always a issue!

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 04:35 PM
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have you beat on it at all? Sometimes it takes a good high rpm run to get the rings seated properly. I believe in babying it for the first 4-500 then just pounding it a few times.

Remove the spout connector back behind the passenger side shock tower, then read the timing. It's a little 2 prong connector with a plug in it, when the plug is removed, the ECU goes to conventional, non-computer controlled timing. Stock timing is 10* BTDC. With your setup, 16-18 would be good, 20-22 if you run 92-93 octane, colder plugs, and a 180* thermostat would be good too, but not in the winter.

Chip tunes do get the car running, but suck for fuel. The tuner intentionally sets the air/fuel excessively rich for safety reasons. My rear bumper gets sooty too, i burn rich as hell. I need it tuned also, but like you, money is an issue for me as well. I might just get a tuner and do it myself with as much as I change my car all the time.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 05:48 PM
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Does the oil smell of fuel at all? If you're running excessively rich, you're probably washing down the cylinder walls, which would account for some oil loss (and is not a good thing).

-Rod

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-19-2006, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar
Does the oil smell of fuel at all? If you're running excessively rich, you're probably washing down the cylinder walls, which would account for some oil loss (and is not a good thing).

-Rod

I will have to check on the smell of fuel in the oil

but i also get a smell of tranny fluid. no leaks, good temp!??? not related to anything we are talking about though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
have you beat on it at all? Sometimes it takes a good high rpm run to get the rings seated properly. I believe in babying it for the first 4-500 then just pounding it a few times.

Remove the spout connector back behind the passenger side shock tower, then read the timing. It's a little 2 prong connector with a plug in it, when the plug is removed, the ECU goes to conventional, non-computer controlled timing. Stock timing is 10* BTDC. With your setup, 16-18 would be good, 20-22 if you run 92-93 octane, colder plugs, and a 180* thermostat would be good too, but not in the winter.

Chip tunes do get the car running, but suck for fuel. The tuner intentionally sets the air/fuel excessively rich for safety reasons. My rear bumper gets sooty too, i burn rich as hell. I need it tuned also, but like you, money is an issue for me as well. I might just get a tuner and do it myself with as much as I change my car all the time.

-Thomas

i have beaten on it a little, but nothing continously. i will definitely check on the timing with the spout connector, but mine is on the passenger fenderwell (by the CAI) at least thats the only on i know of. and i will try to time it with the numbers you gave me. it seems that the tuner you mentioned is set high, but ill try your suggestions let you know whats up. timing with the distributer is a BIATCCHHH!!!!!!

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation

thomas are you talking about 16-18 BTDC or is this advanced 6-8 degrees past the 0 on the harmonic balancer. i tried to do the timing again and now i cant even get the car to start anymore.... can you help me out and clarify!

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 11:05 PM
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Yes, he's referring to setting the base timing to 16-18 BTDC (which equals 16-18 degrees advanced).

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 01:58 PM
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correct. the car should be set at 10* advanced stock, 6-8 more is nice for torque.
-Thomas

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-25-2006, 09:10 PM
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Are you sure it's oil coming from the exhaust? I'd be willing to bet that it's water vapor mixed with soot in the exhaust and it just looks like oil.

Josh Keady

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 02:36 AM
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Did you make some baffles for the BBK covers? If not, the PCV will suck alot of oil.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Are you sure it's oil coming from the exhaust? I'd be willing to bet that it's water vapor mixed with soot in the exhaust and it just looks like oil.

its possible that could be it. i ended up getting it re-timed to about 20 degrees advanced at that seems to be a fairly good spot for tweaking it down or up more. it seems that since i brought the timing down that the white smoke(smelling like fuel) has lessed to almost nothing however its hard to tell because its cold here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougarsc
Did you make some baffles for the BBK covers? If not, the PCV will suck alot of oil.

what exactly do you mean by making baffles??? got a pic??

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:46 PM
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by baffles, he means anti-splash shields. Just like you dont want water coming in through your wheel wells, you dont want oil coming into your intake, just crankcase ventilation. The BBK valvecovers dont have any baffles, which are little aluminum or steel plates that bolt to the underneath of the valve cover where the two vent holes are, it prevents the rockers from throwing oil into the hoses and sending it in to your intake system, which would make smoke.

You brought the timing DOWN to 20 degrees? What was it at before? I've run 24 before but at that point it started losing power. And that was with an advanced cam.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 09:32 PM
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I stole the pic's from this post:

http://www.v6power.net/vb/showthread...=28422&page=10



Here's what the baffles look like under a 99+ valve cover.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
by baffles, he means anti-splash shields. Just like you dont want water coming in through your wheel wells, you dont want oil coming into your intake, just crankcase ventilation. The BBK valvecovers dont have any baffles, which are little aluminum or steel plates that bolt to the underneath of the valve cover where the two vent holes are, it prevents the rockers from throwing oil into the hoses and sending it in to your intake system, which would make smoke.


OOOOoohhhhh i know what your talking about now, No i didnt make any! how would i make those. do they have to be drilled into the valve covers or welded in there. ???

You brought the timing DOWN to 20 degrees? What was it at before? I've run 24 before but at that point it started losing power. And that was with an advanced cam.

the timing was originally at 35 degrees advanced. i was having a difficult time figuring out where the stock mark was at on the balancer. so i basically got it to the point where it would run. but since everyone has been helping me out i figured out where the stock setting was and retarded it to 20 (basically from 35 to 20.) and now it runs better, smokes less and fuel ratio is better. but it is still far from perfect

-Thomas

so i am making progress on the timing but it still needs tweaking. im thinking about taking it to a shop so they can **** with it.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-18-2007, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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does anyone know if the 99+ BBK valvecovers have those stubs on them to thread. i dont remember them haveing them.?? but my valve covers look like the ones above

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-18-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4.3Lcougar
does anyone know if the 99+ BBK valvecovers have those stubs on them to thread. i dont remember them haveing them.?? but my valve covers look like the ones above
yes they do.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
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yes they do.


now, i have access to a rivit gun at work(NAVY AIRFRAMES). i was wondering if it would be safer to rivit a baffle on the valve covers or if it would be better to just drill the holes and tap it with a bolt. im just taking in the 1.73 roller rockers into the build. i dont want to have the rockers hit the bolt. you think they will clear them....?????

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 06:01 AM
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Drill and tap them, and use small machine screws with a little thread locker on them.

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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 08:42 AM
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the BBK valve covers are taller than stock so you'll be fine. _J_ has the Crane Cams rocker arms with studs and a 3/4" long lock nut on top, and his clears the baffles on his BBK's.
-Thomas

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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cool, i fabricated up some baffles today and they seem to be working great already, after all of the excess oil in the PCV system brew threw the exhaust. I havent been seeing very much smoke coming out the rear or soot. so far so good.

thanks for all your help!!

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