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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Porting Question...

I went to the junk yard yesterday, and took a upper intake manifold off of a 1996 Tbird 3.8.

Question, if I send this out to get it ported and polished, then install it on mine, will it make a huge difference in power? I was browsing another website somewhere and they said that porting isn't always good because if the engine itself isn't that powerful, then the porting is useless.

How much more power will I get from a ported/polished upper intake? Is the extra power even going to be noticable?

Thanks

Edit-I'm only referring to the upper intake being ported as of now. With the lower intake being the same, same throttle body and same heads. Will just a Upper Intake being ported and polished make a difference, with everything else being the same?

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 12:54 PM
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It depends if they are going to do a cut and weld type of porting. You're going to get a little bit more HP out of it if it's a cut and weld type of job, than you would out of a "reach porting" (where they take a dremmel and run it inside as far as they can) You may not get much out of it until you do the lower intake (I know when I ported my lower intake, it took quite a bit more off compared to the upper intake)

Atleast porting the upper would be half way there. But why take an upper off once, and not replace the lower at the same time? Cause if/when you go to do the lower, you have to take the upper off anyways!

If you have a dremmel, and a sharpie, and a slip sheet, you can do your own match porting for upper and lower intakes. Just a thought

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe I'll do that then. Next time I go to the junkyard, I'll get a lower intake off of a 96/97 Tbird-Cougar and have them both ported and polished at the same time. Hell, I need the practice of tearing down a motor anyway so it would probably be good that way. I dunno. I'll see what happens. Does anybody here specialize in porting and polishing? If so, how much?

BTW-You've got a pretty good list of mods there, what's your best drag time?

Also-do you by any chance know what tools are needed to get the lower intake off? I'd rather take as least tools as possible to avoid losing them.

Thanks.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 10:19 PM
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meh, it's a decent lil set of mods. I havent actually taken it to a track yet.

But if I can remember right, to get the lower intake off, it's just well more like ten 10mm bolts. I believe that is the right size. You just need to remove the upper intake, then the fuel rail will need to come off, and I think those are 5/16ths bolts (pretty darn small!) but remove that fuel rail (be careful of the injectors) and then the bolts for the lower intake will be there.

When torquing them down, dont listen to the chiltons! It tells the wrong torque, and I ended up busting 2 bolts in the heads! I'll try and see if I cant figure out what the correct torqing is!

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2007, 11:28 PM
 
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You've got to remember that you ENTIRE intake system needs to match flow potential to get the most gains out of any porting.

Porting the upper without porting the lower won't show much for gains if anything. Maybe 2-3 rwhp

Porting both upper and lower will show minimal gain. Maybe 5 rwhp

Porting both the upper and lower along with porting the heads and a better cam will show some better gains. Could get as much as 35+ rwhp from this.

I'm not as familiar with the n/a 3.8s, but remember too about the MAF and TB...Those should be sized properly as well. The better the flow numbers match in all your intake (to include intake runners on the heads) the more power you will make. If you have to do it in parts, then that's fine. It definitely won't hurt. You just won't see quite as much gains from a piece at a time as you would the whole.

As for porting the upper and lower, consider extrude honing them. It costs a bit more than a machinist would charge, but the parts would not be cut and they would all flow equally.

For more information: http://www.gethoned.com/parts.php?ge...how=automotive

Just some thoughts to consider. It all depends on how much you want to start putting into your car. Mine is a '92 SC that I purchased for $2,000 3-4 years ago. I've already more than doubled that in the front bumper alone...and that doesn't make me go any faster! I've got over $8,000 invested in it now (excluding the purchase price) and I know I'm not done yet. Going fast costs money. It all depends on how fast you want to go and how much money you want to (or are able to) spend.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 02:14 AM
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When torquing them down, dont listen to the chiltons! It tells the wrong torque, and I ended up busting 2 bolts in the heads! I'll try and see if I cant figure out what the correct torqing is!
Yes I also found out the hard way. The torque spec for the 96/97 lower intake manifold bolts is a 2 step sequence.

Step 1 - 44 inch lbs.
Step 2 - 71-106 inch lbs.

In addition to the tools mentioned above, you'll need a 15mm wrench or deep socket to get the back upper intake bolt. The fuel rail bolts are 8mm and the lower intake bolts are 1/2 inch/13mm. You'll need to remove the coil bracket and the heater line before you can remove the lower intake.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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About how much does it cost to have the upper and lower intakes ported and polished by a machine shop?

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 04:01 AM
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depends on the machine shop. I had a buddy that works for a macine shop, and he could only hook me up with a price like $300 for the pair. And that was with him doing the work.

I just said screw it, and ported it all myself. I noticed an increase w/cold air/upper/lower intake combo.

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

RIP Orion 800.4 amp, and Ascendant Audio 12" sub. Caught on fire in trunk...
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 03:28 PM
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Also, when I put those all together with the J-mod and the exhaust, it's like I have a whole new car. The acceleration is much faster, it's smoother, and the 1-2 shift (cause of the J-mod) is phenominal!

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

RIP Orion 800.4 amp, and Ascendant Audio 12" sub. Caught on fire in trunk...
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Will the power increase still be alot with the bottom part of the engine staying the same? I have 93K. The pistons and crank are all stock so would this matter any? I heard that on some old muscle cars if you change the top half with that kind of mileage, the pistons all must be changed as well or the car will actually have less power. By the time I have all this done, she might be around the 100K somewhere.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 02:50 AM
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shoot, guess I shoulda changed my pistons and everything too.......

Nah, you'll be fine. I've got a stock bottom end, I blew my HG at 107K, and just installed new everything (valve seals, lifters, ported intakes, etc...) so you have no worry on needing to do anything with some pistons and what not.

You gotta remember, technology is different. Hell, these days, cars arent even considered "broken in" till it hits at-least 100K.

You'll notice a little bit, but not much. It's when everything starts coming together that you realise what you've been putting it into.

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, I called a local machine shop.

Port the Lower Intake: $250.00
Port the Upper: $125.00 (they would make the opening larger, they will not cut it in half)
Heads: $225.00 (to do the pockets under the valves) (An additional $125.00 to match the intake to the heads)

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 10:01 AM
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BlakTbird,

You want a Kick in the rear change, put on upper and lower intakes from a 2000 Mustang V6 and get some splitport heads. You'll get about 50% more horsepower. A cam will up that even more.

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 10:02 AM
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Oh, I've not updated my sig with the best my car has done. Thomas got a 16.88 out of it without the splitport upgrade. I'm just being a jerk because I've yet to duplicate it.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 10:27 AM
 
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And its these kinds of threads I don't need to be seeing this close to graduation

I was going to go the route of the t-bird upper/lower/heads/manifolds, hell im pretty sure the cores are sitting around my garage (if they werent considered garbage and tossed)

Might just have to go the route of stang parts instead. Any hard #s behind that swap? Aside from what mustangs are doing of course.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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BlakTbird,

You want a Kick in the rear change, put on upper and lower intakes from a 2000 Mustang V6 and get some splitport heads. You'll get about 50% more horsepower. A cam will up that even more.

2000 V6 Mustang upper & lower intakes don't match up to all the stuff that goes on MN12 intakes.....so I read anyways, I thought Thomas had said in another thread that the Mustang intakes are different.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 08:02 PM
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the intakes ARE different. The 99+ stang intakes are splitport. 98-older are single port. You can go splitport, but it's going to be a lil bit more work. From what I have heard, the gains are definately worth it, but it all comes down to $$$ and time. Plus the cams in the stock pre-98 engines are more agressive than the 99+ stang stuff (atleast I've heard/seen)

If you really want to get done with the splitport, check with Rod (raceougar) or splitportbird and I'm sure one of them can tell you exactly what needs to go into the change, and what you'd be looking at, I'm sure one of em would send some experience your way, kinda like I'm doing with my porting stuff.

Oh yea, bout the porting. Match porting is dead easy. (matching the heads to the lower and upper intakes) I'd recommend it though if you're gonna do it. I didnt match port my heads, and learned that the gasket was larger than the heads, and that would've been more i coulda done But oh well!

~X=Remember, every problem is a blessing in disguise=X~

96 3.8 NA, 180* T-Stat, PnP Upper and Lower intake, Air Silencer Removed 9" K&N added to fender well, Mild J-modded transmission, 24K B&M Supercooler, 2.25" dual Magnaflow high-flow cats w/2.25" di/do Magnaflow, JVC El-Kameleon LX-30.

RIP Orion 800.4 amp, and Ascendant Audio 12" sub. Caught on fire in trunk...
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 10:28 PM
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BlakTbird,

I've researched this. THe Mustang guys have done this many times. I chose the 2000 intakes because they have no IMRCs. Great for later turbo or supercharger. I've got 97 F-150 heads, which are splitports and supposedly flows better than Mustang heads. I'll have to get a fabbed up fuel rail and I have to get a Mustang TB to go with the intakes.

I've got a cam that is more aggressive than either the TBird or Mustang cams.

The Parts Bin Special is DEAD! It is being parted out.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-23-2007, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
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About how much does it cost to have the upper and lower intakes ported and polished by a machine shop?

This is TMOSS's site. He specializes in porting the 5.0 stocks. Imagine he can help. Local guy here picked up 15+hp on same nite runs with just the lower. Most stock manifolds, the lowers are the restrictions, not the uppers.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 12:01 PM
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This is your best source for V6 performance parts.
http://www.moranav6racing.com/catego...?CategoryID=16
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 10:54 PM
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This is your best source for V6 performance parts.
http://www.moranav6racing.com/catego...?CategoryID=16
I'll have to disagree and add 3 other distributors:

www.delkperformance.com (call them, nothing on their website)
www.rpm-mustangs.com (hes cutting back business, may be hard to get a hold of)
www.supersimotorsports.com (does the most business, and deffinetely the industry leader)

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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Are any of you familiar with this place:

www.cylinder-heads.com.


I found him on ebay. I'm trying to get 96 Thundebrid 3.8 single pprt heads. This guy said he has SEVERAL factory 3.8 heads....GM, Ford, Chrysler, Mustang, Tbird, SC, Camaro, etc. I called him to ask if he has 1996 Thunderbird 3.8 heads. He said he probably does have them but he needs to know if the 2 center holes are the same size as the other holes. He also said he may need the casting number because he has so many 3.8 heads. I'd hate to buy heads from him and have them be the wrong ones. I thought he would just know if he had 1996 Thunderbird/Cougar 3.8 Single port heads.

My upper and lower intake are not near me at this time so I have no way of knowing the casting number, bolt hole size, etc. Do any of you know what I should tell this guy so he can find me the right heads?

Thanks.

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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 01:36 PM
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Blak,

I have never heard of them, BUT if they can't tell the difference in Ford 3.8 heads, I wouldn't go near them. Look as Super 6's site. The have a very good article on the differences between SC, Single port, and splitport heads.

Maybe try JK89Cat for 3.8 heads. I think SC heads would work fine for you.

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Blak,

I have never heard of them, BUT if they can't tell the difference in Ford 3.8 heads, I wouldn't go near them. Look as Super 6's site. The have a very good article on the differences between SC, Single port, and splitport heads.

Maybe try JK89Cat for 3.8 heads. I think SC heads would work fine for you.

With SC heads, I would have to use the SC intakes.

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