trans for 95bird (97, 99, or what?) - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2010, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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trans for 95bird (97, 99, or what?)

my 95s trans is totally locked up, looking for a new one, i was thinking the 97 trans from a mark8 and the flexplate would be the easiest, but if there anything different from the 95 to 97? tail-shaft maybe?

i would also like to know whats diff from 95 to 99, since a lot of people seem to get them out of a mustang. can i get a 4r70w out of a pickup as well, or is the output shaft larger?

i would just like to know what would be the best one to choose, I'm not afraid of changing some of the pieces, but i would rather not have to tear it apart since I'm looking to buy a used one with low millage, and maybe Jmod it. rather not have to rip it apart to change the tail-shaft, but if i have to... i would like to know.

i know all this info is here somewhere, but at the moment i don't have time to page through the forums, maybe later. so links to useful forums would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 07:32 AM
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The 97 Mark VIII would be the easiest and it should have the updated accumulator pistons already.

But, if it were me and I was going for the easiest but better swap, I would get one from a 98 Mark VIII and swap over the electronics from your transmission into it while you are modding the valve body. That would be a direct bolt in and drive setup.

Changing to a Mustang, Crown Vic, truck, van or other transmission is going to require a speedo gear swap as well as dealing with the electronics if you get one from a newer vehicle. You need to stay away from 03 and newer transmissions no matter what it comes out of. If the donor is a truck it needs to be a 2 wheel drive truck only. If it's a Crown or other Panther platform donor then you need to make sure that it has the short tailshaft like is in your car. Obviously the transmission needs to come out of a vehicle with the 4.6/5.4 modular engine or the bellhousing will be wrong for your 4.6 bird.

You don't need to change the flexplate unless you are swapping to the smaller converter found in the Mark VIII, Mustang GT or Panther police and sport models.

Make sure you completely flush the transmission cooler and lines on your car to get rid of any leftover crap or you will be replacing the replacement way too soon.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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well if it comes out of a mark8 I'm pretty sure it will have a 11" T/C on it and ill need a flex-plate. I'm looking at a 97 cougar one at the moment. that will bolt right in? nothing is diff, no tail-shaft, flex-plate, shift-lever, repin? my father seems to think there must be something different with it since it has a different part number, and the database he has access to at work, doesn't list it as a replacement for my year. i keep telling him it will work, based on all the stuff i have read here on tccoa, but hes bull headed. doesn't really like to listen to anything i say.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:57 PM
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There isn't a transmission out there worth having that will bolt right in. With stock gear ratios you can use a transmission up to 02, you will need to change the speedometer gear and repin the harness if trying to use anything 98+. As always you have to use a 93-95 TCC solenoid no matter what you do.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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well I'm not exactly building a drag-car.... just want to get her back on the road running as she did, or better(but still streetable). so, the converter solenoid? where is that located on the trans?I'm guessing its on the top of the gearbox somewhere. dose it have a different plug on it? is that why you have to change it?

and 98+ so I'm assuming that's from explorers or something, cuz there aren't any 98 Tbirds, and the cougars are those little 4cyl things. cant help but wonder if one of those would be a better swap, did they do anything better to the 98's than the 97's?

as far as i now, the valve-body was updated in the 97, but from what i hear, that's it; everything else is the same(besides that TCC solenoid i guess). only reason i want to go with a 97 in my 95, i hear the 95's are turds, and the best thing you can do is change that trans to something newer. and since my trans seems to be locked up, i might as well get the best of the best.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 02:59 PM
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The TCC solenoid is attached to the valve body in the pan. A 98 transmission could come out of a mark VIII, but you can use one from a truck, Mustang, Crown Vic... etc. You can also use newer than 98 but steer clear of 03 or newer.

The only things with using one that didn't come from a Bird, Cougar or Mark is that you will have to change the speedometer gear since the rest are going to have an extra drive tooth on the output shaft and you definitely need to make sure the output shaft is the same length as yours before you buy.

A transmission from the little Cougars won't work at all by the way. Also, the pre 02 Explorers were 5 liter equipped so that wouldn't work because of the different bellhousing.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2010, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, figured the speedo would be off without a gear change, still got to do that with my dads ranger, since we put some bigger tires on...

and wow, i wasn't aware the explorers kept the 5.0 that long, could have sworn they went to 4.6 after like 98. guess that makes things easier for finding the drivetrain out of one for the ranger. 4.0 is a little too laggy.

so the output shafts are just "longer" in diff years? they didnt add a tooth to them or anything, cuz i would think you could just get the yoke off the driveshaft, and have a custom shaft made. kind of a lot of work though. probably easier to just find one that's the same :P
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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OK, my dad is looking at a 96 trans out of a interceptor that was rebuilt a year ago. he says he emailed Dog, and he told him it wont work. so I'm confused. as far as i know, there isn't anything major different from my 95 Tbird, to that 96 Vic besides maybe the shift lever/MLPS(besides the internals)....

anyone got some info? diff speedo gear maybe? cuz i can fix that easy... maybe dog can come in here? tell me a little about why it wont work?
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:18 PM
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It won't work because it has the longer tailshaft/output shaft. That's pretty much the only difference, but you'd have to completely disassemble the trans to swap the output shaft and tail housing to use it.

Also, all non-MN12 and FN10 transmissions will have an 8-tooth output shaft (up to 2003), so you will have to change speedo gears no matter what if you get one of those.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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ah, that's what me and my father were just talking about 30 min ago... what i figured since the Vic is a bit longer than the bird... but i told him that i would much rather have an F7 case anyway. so we'll keep looking.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 12:00 AM
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-31-2010, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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ok, reopening this post... were now looking at a 97 Mark8 4R70w. my dad wants to know everything we would have to do to it to get it into my 95 Tbird. i know the T/C is smaller and we'll need a flexplate, but is there anything big or small, that would make this not work in my car? output shaft maybe? anything at all...
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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i guess i must have asked a dumb question since i got no reply.... ive been looking around for some kindof reference sheet of the differences of 4R70W's. dosent seem to be anything like that here than i can find. would be nice, something that lists the differences from 94-95-96-97-98... to now. and maybe branch out into transmissions that wont work from other cars without major modifications.

i dont know, seems like something of that nature would be really helpful : /

edit* sorry about bumping the thread, but im prolly heading to omaha thurs for this Mk8 trans, and i would like to know if it will even work...
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 02:00 AM
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The 97 Mark tranny will work on your Bird - you will only need to re-use the 95 Tbird's TCC Solenoid or buy a new one. And the Flywheel if you want to use the Mark TC .. or you can re-use the Tbird and not change the flywheel.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 10:07 AM
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Having a 95 you should grab the TC and flywheel. 95 TCs suck.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machausta View Post
Having a 95 you should grab the TC and flywheel. 95 TCs suck.

No, its the 94's.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 03:40 PM
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No, its the 94's.
Maybe they both suck, but my TC shakes violently going into overdrive. Thank God I'm getting another transmission w/ TC very soon.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 04:03 PM
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Maybe they both suck, but my TC shakes violently going into overdrive. Thank God I'm getting another transmission w/ TC very soon.
I've heard tons of problems with TC shudder on not only the 'Birds, but Lincolns and other Fords around that time-frame. Whatever, I've had good luck with mine *knock on wood*, but also have a MarkVIII TC/Flexplate/DS to go in if something does happen!
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, thats what i figured, and thats one of the reasons im glad to find a MK8, for the 11" TC, not to mention the F7 case, so when i rebuild it in the future, ill have a solid case. were probably gonna J-mod it befor instal too, so i can get that noid while im in there. ill be poping the pan to dump the fluid at the very least.

and if your TC shudders, chances are you either ran you fluid WAY over millage, or put the wrong fluid in when you flushed it. MercV might fix it(for a while) but i doubt it.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 05:16 PM
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yeah, thats what i figured, and thats one of the reasons im glad to find a MK8, for the 11" TC, not to mention the F7 case, so when i rebuild it in the future, ill have a solid case. were probably gonna J-mod it befor instal too, so i can get that noid while im in there. ill be poping the pan to dump the fluid at the very least.

and if your TC shudders, chances are you either ran you fluid WAY over millage, or put the wrong fluid in when you flushed it. MercV might fix it(for a while) but i doubt it.
I changed the fluid two days after getting the car, and used Valvoline Merc V. Here it is 10k later (about 78k miles) and its just getting worse and worse. I know the fluid wasn't changed before I got the car (ever) so I'm not surprised by this at all.

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-06-2010, 10:16 PM
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I changed the fluid two days after getting the car, and used Valvoline Merc V. Here it is 10k later (about 78k miles) and its just getting worse and worse. I know the fluid wasn't changed before I got the car (ever) so I'm not surprised by this at all.
I don't know what others think, but as strange as this sounds..... My experience, if something hasn't been disturbed in FOREVER (like in your case), when you finally do disturb it (like changing the fluid), you bring about problems. When I first got my 'Bird, it had been sitting for 2.5 years. Everything worked great for about 2 weeks (no lie), then things started failing. Like the electric windows stopped going up and down, the suspension started rattling, and other small things that just got hard and brittle with age and lack of use...
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, i know a lot of people that swear by leaving a trans or engine alone if its been run on sludge for a long time, becuase as soon as you swap the fluid, especially to a syn fluid, it will start springing leaks, or causing clutches to slip or fail... common sense tells me that yes, it should do that, but im a firm beleiver in changing my fluid regularly, or right away if i buy a car and i dont know if its been changed in a while (like if its brown mud). sometimes the only thing holding things together is the accumulated sludge -_-

chances are thats the orriginal fluid from the whole 78k and the damage is done...

but anyway, went ahead and grabbed that Mk8 trans, its an F7 with the 11" TC, and the big pan. so im happy, but now i got to find a flexplate... looks great, everything seems to be the same but the MLPS, but i got my old one, or a new one if i have too. my dads still thinking about buying a BG shift kit, or listening to me, and buying the ford parts listed in the tech articles here and doing it ourselves for half the price :P im gonna go ahead and buy a new TCC and i should be good to go.

gonna be great driving her again. i can finally get out of the old 178k ranger with the slipping trans XD. shes gonna be next... its one of those old A4LD's and its puking fluid/OD slips so much its hardly worth using.
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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got another question, my dad is reading something about having to change all the noids in the 97 trans i have to the 95's because they supposedly aren't exactly right and will prematurely fail... I'm not sure, what I've been reading is that the 97' is fine, there exactly the same as the 95s. only diff i see is the 98's.
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