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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Valve body (shift improving), what to mod?

Hello y'all, I am going to be building my 4R70W soon and want to ask some questions. First let me tell you what I have: 96 F150 2wd with a 351. The motor is nothing crazy, stock bottom end with a 85-88 Mustang HO cam, roller rockers, Explorer P-heads, shorty headers, Lightning intake. I had Dityd0g build me a 12" converter with alittle stall speed increase, but it is not in there yet. The truck is my daily driver, but NOT a work truck. Weight is 4310 lbs. with me in it. 3.73 gears with 28.5" tires. I will be building the transmission with all the best internals that I know of. Diode sprag, 98-02 clutches, removed wave plate, 5.4 gears (if I find them in time) 98+ accumulator pistons. ~~~~~ OK what I need to know about is the valve body, separator plate modifications, and accumulator springs. ~~~~~ I want the trany to shift factory smooth on light throttle, slightly firm at heavy throttle, and chirp tires at WOT. What is the best way to achive this?
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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I have read all about the Jerry's Mods and wanted some clarification from there to get what I am looking for. Transmissions I have for parts are: 94 CrownVic, 95 5.0 HO Mustang, 95 Mark8, 96 F150, 99 Town Car, and 2001 4.2 E150. I think the best valve body for me to use as a starting point is the 99 TownCar one. Yes I know what electrical pieces I have to change to use it, but where can I go from there?
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 12:16 PM
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I'm wondering whether you want or need a TRUCK VB to get where you want to be? - I garner that it's different fm Passenger Car VB - Jerry's stuff certainly great & certainly relevant but NOT current as to the newer Parts & newer VB's out there now - SO...

- I'd answer the VB question
- I'd consult with a GURU
- I'd DEFINITELY consult a truck site with your TIRE setup~!
- I'd also review:

http://www.sonnax.com/index.php & http://www.p71interceptor.com/

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 01:48 PM
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Out of what you have listed the 99 Town Car valve body is the best choice. You can mod it per the instructions in the tech articles here for the mild setup and be good to go. But, without a LOT of more custom work and particularly a very good tune you are never going to get it to shift factory smooth at one throttle position and hard as hell at another. You will have to give and take on each end to reach the best average.

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 02:36 PM
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Question up in JMOD HP ?

You lost me there Darrin as the Mild JMOD in my MK is CLOSE to that but a Shift that chirps a WOT 16 Inch Tire surely won't chirp a "28.5 tire" - So I was thinking you'd have to move up in JMOD HP relative to what you are actually have HP wise ___? - It's definitely a fact by the time you chirp 28's you better have a good Extension Housing, then Spicer U Joints, then a good D/Shaft, then a good Rear End, then 2 good Axles, then some pretty decent Hubs & Lugs because it WILL find the weak link~! - The Truck guys chirp these larger Tires so I would have to go to school on them.

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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 02:59 PM
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He is never going to get factory quality part throttle shifts at WOT without...

Oh wait, I think I covered that already

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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
But, without a LOT of more custom work and particularly a very good tune you are never going to get it to shift factory smooth at one throttle position and hard as hell at another. You will have to give and take on each end to reach the best average.

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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 03:07 PM
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True dat & upon reflection it aint that hard to chirp a Mud Grip on Asphalt... & you always have a Truck bed handy for the parts that fall out from under it~!

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 03:15 PM
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Mr. RobertP built my JMod to were she shifts firm ( No Snap) at mild to mid throttle , But will bark them big time at WOT , I believe that was accomplished with a lighter tension spring , Just my 2 pennies on the great way she shifts

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
Mr. RobertP built my JMod to were she shifts firm ( No Snap) at mild to mid throttle , But will bark them big time at WOT , I believe that was accomplished with a lighter tension spring , Just my 2 pennies on the great way she shifts
Firm, yes. Factory smooth like he asked? Not exactly.

He is asking for something that can be done, but not as easily done as a simple valve body mod.

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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies y'all. Some slight clarification; The 28.5" tires I am talking about are the stock 235-75-15 Goodyears. If they ever wear out I will go back with 235-70-15's (27.9" tall). My truck is OBD-II and is tuned with a SCT xcalibrator3. ~~~~~ So definitely go with the 99 TownCar valve body over the 2001 van? Thoughts and reasons please?
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 09:35 AM
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Question Truck VB ?

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So definitely go with the 99 TownCar valve body over the 2001 van? Thoughts and reasons please?
A Guru has spoken there & said go w/99 - & I say the 2001+ VB's need the 3rd Small Round Plate re-installed per the Sonnax Site I already referred you to - What would be kinda constructive here is for a Guru to explain what the difference is between the Truck VB & a Car VB ___? - I would have thought you could do it all w/ PCM progamming differences but supposedly there is a difference in Truck / Van VB's vice Car VB's.

- Transgo a TOTAL weirded out POS but I did like this Article as far as providing some clue as to how the VB "works".

http://www.p71interceptor.com/misc/t...ent5820507.pdf

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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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Tell me more about re-installing the 3rd small round plate. I went to the Sonnax site but didn't find anything technical. When I try to pull up the p71 link I just get a blank page. Since I have a truck, do I need a truck VB?
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 11:00 AM
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http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=5245&pl=1

Look HARDER & as I said I too would like to know what a truck VB is, or isn't___?

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LSCR351 View Post
Tell me more about re-installing the 3rd small round plate. I went to the Sonnax site but didn't find anything technical. When I try to pull up the p71 link I just get a blank page. Since I have a truck, do I need a truck VB?
You don't need a truck valve body. One from a car will work, but as said earlier it might shift differently.

The truck valve body's had different internal spring setups and some of the orifices on the plates were different.

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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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So what do I do, use a truck valve body or a car one?
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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 09:20 PM
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Oh, I don't know...

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Out of what you have listed the 99 Town Car valve body is the best choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
You don't need a truck valve body.

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Alright then, I will use the 99 TownCar VB unless I find a 99-00 truck or van one, is that correct? And I would guess that using the 01 truck separator with the 99 T-Car VB would be bad? Now, I can get a VB out of a 2000 Police car, would that be better than the TownCar one?
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=5245&pl=1

Look HARDER & as I said I too would like to know what a truck VB is, or isn't___?
Thanks for the link. That is wierd, what is the reason for that? From what has been said I will only use a 99-00 VB.
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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:12 AM
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Correct in general you should'nt intermingle Seperator plates fm differing VB castings & internals - What you are going to see on the newer 99/00 VB's if you were to JMOD them to"Mild Spec" is that many of the holes are already sized to the Mild spec in these newer 99/00 Seperator Plates unlike a 96 Seperator Plate for instance - Some Guru's often reccommend going with at least the upgraded Sonnax Main Pressure Regulator Valve Assy in any of these VB's.

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:35 AM
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The prudent Guru's often reccommend going with at least the upgraded Sonnax Main Pressure Regulator Valve Assy in any of these VB's.
I haven't used those other than to test them. Never had a reason to and I am definitely not goig to argue with the results I have had. I have also never suggested using them and I don't sell them. Which may be related.

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:49 AM
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Alright then, I will use the 99 TownCar VB unless I find a 99-00 truck or van one, is that correct? And I would guess that using the 01 truck separator with the 99 T-Car VB would be bad? Now, I can get a VB out of a 2000 Police car, would that be better than the TownCar one?
You can't j-mod a truck valve body that is older than somewhere around 03 because it has different orifices and internal springs. So forget about that.

Also, a 99-00 valve body is going to be pretty much identical. No need to get one from a 00 CVPI.

I will try to make this a little more clear. From what has been discussed so far as potential alternatives, use the 99 Town Car valve body that you have and mod that.

That recaps what has been talked about here.

Now, and I shouldn't but I will, to go past what was asked here and look to something better, if you can get a valve body from a car that is 01 or newer or a truck that is 03 or newer then I would mod and use that.

But the question that was asked wasn't what would be the best to use out of every available possibility without limitation. The question that was asked was what should be used out of multiple choice and I answered that to the best of my ability a couple of times.

Too much information can get confusing. K I S S

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 11:54 AM
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Well now that you opened the door I'll leave it to the PRUDENT Guru to come on here & straighten you out...

AGAIN.
All I have to say is that I have an unquestionable proven record of providing exceptional products that do not fail and virtually work beyond expectations.

I am not going to argue with anyone, so because of that I am done providing any further info in this thread because that is what you admittedly are after. You just took away a great source of info for someone who was looking for factual and unbiased information.

Proud of yourself?

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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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All I have to say is that I have an unquestionable proven record of providing exceptional products that do not fail and virtually work beyond expectations.

I am not going to argue with anyone, so because of that I am done providing any further info in this thread because that is what you admittedly are after. You just took away a great source of info for someone who was looking for factual and unbiased information.

Proud of yourself?

Darrin
Please don't be like that man. I am not trying to have anything to do with whatever y'all have going on that I am oblivios to. Thank you for helping steer me in the right directions. As of now I don't have access to anything 01+ car or 03+ truck, so I will be using the TownCar VB. I hope to be able to ask more questions when they arive in the future.
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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 12:21 PM
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Darrin I had Smileys & Just Kidding ALL OVER that Post - So get a sense of humor & get a grip... & I deleted the damn Post - LVE, Uncle Buck

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 12:50 PM
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The sonnax pressure regulator valve is worth every penny. Sometimes I put the spring in with it for slightly higher line pressure. On stock cars that part alone will give mild improvement in shift feel. Generally speaking the best part is the valve. It has grooves in it which allow contamination a place to go and serve to keep lubrication available. The valve is also anodized making it resist wear nicely. I seem to find every valvebody I get needs a pressure regulator valve. The late model valvebodies have gotten better, but the older one you could always see one side of the valve worn considerably.
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 02:04 PM
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Darrin I had Smileys & Just Kidding ALL OVER that Post - So get a sense of humor & get a grip... LVE, Uncle Buck
Sorry, I have just had enough of the stupid arguments. My new policy is to let it be known why I am leaving the thread, who it was that is the reason for that and then just drop the thread subscription and never come back.

On this one the OP asked that this not happen before I had the chance to do that and I saw it via email.

The stupid arguments need to go completely away, period, and I am going to do my part to try and help that. It doesn't mean that I am going to just agree with BS, shut up and go away since BS info needs to get quashed too. So, it does mean that I will help provide quality and civil discussion to help further the idea that this is a place where those who want to learn good, factual info on this stuff can do so. When things stop being civil, I'm out of that one particular discussion. I will still be here otherwise and will still answer anything that I can with the best information that I have and with complete unbiased honesty.

To the OP, you can obviously feel free to ask any question that you want anytime you want and that goes for asking me anything as well. I will gladly help you out if you need help. You can feel free to ask here, as long as the thread doesn't get stupid, via PM, email at [email protected] or phone at 317-514-0816.

Oh, and on replacing that valve, I choose not to replace that valve with an aftermarket part that is quite a bit harder than the bore and wears on the bore in the valve body much faster than the valve body ever wears on the factory valve. Which, oddly enough with the factory valve, these transmissions tend to live a VERY long life with no failure related to that part. Yes there is visible wear on most of them because the pressure will tend to cock it in the bore a little and cause that. But it ain't broke if you get what I am saying.

When/if things ever slow down to give me time while I am in the shop then I will try and take pictures to illustrate what happens and why and what to think of it.

Wear on that valve bore can't be repaired by the way, so that's a good way to make scrap out of an otherwise good valve body. Since I really don't like to create scrap for no good reason, I choose to do things differently. Others may have their own opinion.

Take care
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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Please don't be like that man. I am not trying to have anything to do with whatever y'all have going on that I am oblivios to. Thank you for helping steer me in the right directions. As of now I don't have access to anything 01+ car or 03+ truck, so I will be using the TownCar VB. I hope to be able to ask more questions when they arive in the future.
You would never believe this; I just took a 2001 CrownVic Non-Police in on trade. Do I need to pull the VB out of this? Production date is 08-2000.

Last edited by LSCR351; 02-07-2010 at 03:11 PM. Reason: production date
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Using the numbering from Jerry's Mods, is it the #4 or the #5 feed hole to the direct clutch that is used at light throttle normal driving? I am sure y'all can see where I'm going with this question. Can I have a small hole for light throttle, and a large hole for heavy throttle?
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-09-2010, 11:56 AM
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I don't know... What I do know is those are relatively TEENY holes, the Backout Valve gets involved there somehow & again I think you'll find a 99-00+ VB already has STOCK sized holes darn close or bigger than Mild Setting JMOD sizes called for in MANY areas from what I saw in the 2001+ VB I had apart & compared next to my 96 VB.

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Using the numbering from Jerry's Mods, is it the #4 or the #5 feed hole to the direct clutch that is used at light throttle normal driving? I am sure y'all can see where I'm going with this question. Can I have a small hole for light throttle, and a large hole for heavy throttle?
No it does not work like that. The 4 and 5 holes both feed the direct clutch at the same time.
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