Grand Marquis tranny swap underway - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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Grand Marquis tranny swap underway

Swapping in a 2002 Grand Marquis tranny. Day 2, finally got the old one out.

Problems encountered so far:

Broke off the bolt in the driver's side exhaust manifold. I plan to remove the manifold and have a machine shop remove/restud it, but we can already see how the best-laid plans go. $195 for a new Dorman manifold at Autozone seems a bit steep. Wish me luck there.

Driveshaft fought hard at the pinion bolts, but it's out. PB Blaster is my friend. I had the diff down a few years ago putting in poly bushings and making the rear mount solid, and I used anti-sieze during re-assembly. That made it easy.

Torque converter nuts. Grrr. Two of them rounded off, maybe from the last time when I had the current Reinhart tranny installed by a shop. Had to get a nut remover, like the otside version of an easy-out. Thankfully, it worked. Tranny came down easily after the converter was unbolted from the flex=plate, but not before.

Swapped over the tailshaft tonight to keep the forced-lube setup; I have two extra gasket (came in a pack of three).

All sensors swapped over, including the new orange speedo gear for the VSS (stock 3.27 gears), and the OSS. Will swap MLPS after the shift lever gets swapped. Is there some particular way to calibrate the MLPS that I'm not seeing?

Need to swap the shift lever and the MLPS still, but I didn't have a wrench big enough to take the shifter shaft off. 18 mm is too small, 7/8 too big; guessing 19-20-21 mm-ish?

Broke a 13 mm Craftsman 6-point socket on the bellhousing dust cover bolts, and also broke a cheap-ass Harbor Freight wobble bar.

Best way to get the upper tranny bolts out turned out to be a 13 mm combination wrench. Bones in the palm of my left hand hurt a little, but I won the battle.

Noticed the upper (third) starter bolt is missing. Looks like the tranny shop that installed the Reinhart tranny 7 years ago cut a corner there.

My oldest son (15) thoroughly hates Mercon V now, but he's been a big help.

Bulkhead connector repinning is simple. Harness comes out, so you can work on it on the bench top. Clamp it gently in the vise, and use a jeweler's screwdriver to free the pins. You can pull and re-insert each wire individually if you are careful, but the silicone plug must be inverted to get the holes in the corret locations. One wire color is different; the medium brown/red-orange stripe wire on my 97 is the TCC wicre (the p71 drawing says it's R/LB, which I would guess is red/light brown, on the 97-earlier models). It's the brown/yellow stripe wire on the 98-up design. Be careful not to mix up the TCC wire and the SS2 purple/orange stripe wires. I did... Chalk it up to dirty and faded wire colors. All other wires match up per the drawing on www.p71interceptor.com . The new tranny came with the connector still attached, so I used the 2002 plastic cover, and the 1997 silicone seal flipped over to get the right holes for use. The two extra red 12V wires will go into the unused 9 and 10 slots.

Three-day delay while I go back to work, and stew over how to get the exhaust manifold off and back on. Tranny won't go in until I figure out the manifold issue.

Love working in 90 degree temps and high humidity, but it beats doing it in January, wth 10-20-below temps.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...

Last edited by terraplane8; 09-14-2010 at 12:25 AM. Reason: figured out wiring problems
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 03:41 AM
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Sorry to hear about the troubles man. I know the pain. I swapped the Transmission on my 96 Cougar I had years ago. We jacked up each corner rotating around the car and kept stacking blocks underneath the tires till we had about 3 feet of clearance under the car. The top bolts were a pain but some universal Joints and some 3 ft extensions work wonders haha.

Anyway sorry to say bro but the Exhaust manifold won't come off in the car I'm pretty sure. I'm deployed right now but I'm pretty sure that it won't fit between the frame of the car and engine to come out the bottom. There just is no room in there. Someone may chime in but to be honest... you're better just getting it out while it's in the car. Otherwise the head will have to come out. So maybe someone can give you some tips on removing the stud with it in the car so you can put a new one in.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-26-2010, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Engine's coming out, to fix the broken stud on the driver's side exhaust manifold. Too hot in the garage to fight it right now, though.

No room to work under the car to try and drill/retap/restud. If I was on a lift, maybe. Need to replace the oil pan gasket, anyway. Then I'll put the whole assembly (with the tranny attached) back in from the top.

Hood, strut tower brace, battery, radiator, , alternator, intake manifold, coil packs, fuse block, coolant reservoir, power steering reservoir and pump, AC compressor, are coming off before the motor mounts get undone, and the cherry picker gets in there.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Runs and drives, but has issues...

Finally, after a long hot summer of getting nothing done, it moves under its own power.

Engine came out just fine without the transmission, but it went back in as one complete assembly; not too hard if you are patient with the cherry picker, load leveler, and a floor jack under the tailshaft. An extra set of hands would have been nice, but I got it done alone. I didn't have to remove the steering shaft, but it was close. AC compressor was a pain, but removing and bolting it up with the engine raaised a few inches above the mounts made it possible. I had to get a complete pressure hose for the power steering system just to replace the seal at the pump, because Ford doesn't service the seal any more.

I ended up going with an oversize replacement stud from Autozone in the driver's side exhaust manifold. Drilling and tapping for a new OEM stud left too loose a hole.

Startup went fine, got 12 quarts of Mercon V in it before it was just reading a little high, ran through all the shifter positions and felt it go into gear when it should. That should indicate the bulkhead connector pin swap was succesful.

Here's the problem:

When test driving it, first gear seems just fine. I swapped in a reman Marauder converter, so I don't know how much different it should feel off the line from the stock converter. Smooth, almost imperceptible shifts, but I can hear the engine sound change each time (the tach hasn't worked in 7 years). Under easy acceleration, up to about 40-45 mph, it shifts into each gear all the way up to overdrive, but it seems like it is freewheeling, possibly like the torque converter isn't locking up. If I let off the gas it seems to rev freely when I get back into the throttle. I drove it about a mile, barely even around the block, and brought it back home. Everything got up to normal temps, no trouble lights other than the upstream O2 sensor code that I had before and still can't figure out. Level is still a shade high after the test drive.

The transmission is a totally unmodified 02 Grand Marquis version, 35k miles, came with the large converter, but I used a reman Marauder converter on the install. I swapped over my original 97 VSS, OSS, MLPS, and installed the orange VSS gear (I have 3.27 gears). One thing I noticed is that the OSS and VSS connectors seem to use the same type of plug, but I believe I got them on the correct sensor based on harness length and location. I checked that each pin on the bulkhead connector was securely locked into the socket, and I used the p71interceptor link to make the changes, with the color differences noted in my earlier post. EDIT (I had the SS2 and TCC wires swapped, that was the cause of the whole problem...EDIT Car is tuned with a SCT tuner from Lonnie, basically stock with the intake mods in my sig, and the tune made my old Reinhart transmission a lot more livable than without (I believe it was just a stock rebuild with a high HP jmod (no bottom 1-2 spring).

Any ideas, hints, etc., would be most greatly appreciated.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...

Last edited by terraplane8; 09-14-2010 at 12:28 AM. Reason: figured out the problem...
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 08:40 PM
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I think I might drive it more and make sure that the transmission fluid gets hot. An unlocked converter isn't going to kill anything.

I am guessing from what you said that you did a harness repin? You might recheck again that if you did.

But, if you swapped the VSS and OSS connectors then you would definitely have issues. This is not that for sure.

Also, there may be a loose internal connection or just a bad TCC if you do find a problem after driving it more.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terraplane8 View Post
The transmission is a totally unmodified 02 Grand Marquis version, 35k miles, came with the large converter, but I used a reman Marauder converter on the install. I swapped over my original 97 VSS, OSS, MLPS, and installed the orange VSS gear (I have 3.27 gears). One thing I noticed is that the OSS and VSS connectors seem to use the same type of plug, but I believe I got them on the correct sensor based on harness length and location. I checked that each pin on the bulkhead connector was securely locked into the socket, and I used the p71interceptor link to make the changes, with the color differences noted in my earlier post. Car is tuned with a SCT tuner from Lonnie, basically stock with the intake mods in my sig, and the tune made my old Reinhart transmission a lot more livable than without (I believe it was just a stock rebuild with a high HP jmod (no bottom 1-2 spring).

Any ideas, hints, etc., would be most greatly appreciated.
I don't know why your converter isn't locking up (which seems what is happening), but I put 3.27 gears in my Bird and I had to put the Gray 18 Tooth gear to make the speedo correct. Don't know if that would make any difference in your symptoms, however.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for the quick responses...

I'm out of town for a few days. Not sure if my Haynes manual shows the wire colors for the OSS and VSS connectors, so if anyone knows them, I'd appreciate it. What exactly does the OSS do? Does the VSS do more than just send a speed signal?

Looking at my initial post, about the TCC wire colors not being the same as the p71 page says, makes me wonder, but what other wire could I have swapped it with? It goes into all gears, so the shift solenoid wires should be correct. The three red power wires are obvious, I used 1 and put the other two in the 9 and 10 spots. That leaves signal return and transmission temp which should set a trouble code if a bad signal came back??? TCC not locking up should show a trouble code if there was too much slip when commanded, and I think the EPC wire, if it was incorrect would probably give me no functionability at all, unless maybe the EPC has a default setting.

EDIT Turns out I had the SS2 and TCC wires swapped... EDIT

Lonnie told me the tune I have is compatible with a stock '02 GM transmission, per the info regarding line pressure in the later valve bodies.

I suppose the way it feels reminds me of how the powerstroke trucks always sound like they are running at the redline. Tons of slip. Not like it was once when I fried the forward clutches in my first transmission (low fluid caused that). Nice solid engagement in forward and reverse gears. I can't imagine a reman TC being bad out of the box; that would totally be messed up.

I let it idle for about 10-15 minutes after intial startup, while I was checking for fluid leaks, adding Mercon V, topping off the anti-freeze, etc, so engine temp was in the normal spot when I was done driving it. Not sure where tranny temp was but I still have the in-radiator cooler in service also.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...

Last edited by terraplane8; 09-14-2010 at 12:31 AM.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-08-2010, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Just took it for another test drive. It doesn't shift into overdrive, and it feels/sounds like it is free-revving when it should be going into OD, feels like no torque converter lockup.

Also, during the 2-3 shift, it hesitates, and then does a double-pump thing (like when you lug a manual transmission at too low an RPM).

1-2 shift feels right for a stock transmission, second gear feels normal except for the hesitation when it should go to 3rd. Reverse is nice and solid as well.

EDIT SS2 and TCC wires were swapped, causing the whole problem. EDIT

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...

Last edited by terraplane8; 09-14-2010 at 12:33 AM. Reason: found the problem
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-08-2010, 07:25 PM
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Overdrive Band? Servo? I know you think it may have something to do with your mix-n-match with the Maradaur torque converter, but have you used that transmission at all before you installed it with the modified converter?

If it were my ride, I'd put the stock converter in it just to narrow down the problem. If nothing changes, then it's not in the converter, right? If the problems go away, then it is the converter.

I know that just eliminates the converter as an issue, but you gotta start somwhere. If it is in the tranny (which I suspect), you're gonna have to check everything YOU changed to make sure it's correct and working. I know you did a lot to make this tranny work in your ride, but you have to approach this systematically if you want to work through it and get cruising again.

Just my .02.....

Ok, more advice. As for the manifold - I would go to a u-pull-it yard, pull one of that is easy to get, pay $20 & take it home. Oh, you already took care of that issue, sorry....
Get new driveshaft bolts and torque converter nuts - they're cheap enough.
Go over your re-pin job again, make sure it's connected well (not pushing the pins down when you plug it in for instance).
Have you called Lonnie and ask him that his tune will work fine enough with your new tranny?

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Last edited by NetKeym; 09-08-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-08-2010, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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The Haynes manual has a little bit of wiring help in the last few pages, but not every wire is shown. I'm going to take the harness back out again tomorrow and reverify the pins. It also shows the colors for the VSS, but not the OSS wires, so I may be able to verify that is connected correctly.

I wonder if the orange speedo gear is correct for my 3.27's. Speedo doesn't appear to be accurate based on seat of the pants, but could be wrong. I found the chart correlating the output shaft to gear ratio on a different bulletin board.

Lonnnie told me before I started that his tune program would be good with the 2002 transmission's differences.

I really want to avoid pulling the tranny again. The TC was drop shipped by Lonnie, I'm guessing through a Ford parts supplier he works through, but I suppose that doesn't mean Ford couldn't have screwed up a reman.

Transmission was a 35k mile takeout from LKQ. All I did was put a filter in it and swap converters prior to install.

Definitely using new hardware. Cheap insurance.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-08-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terraplane8 View Post
The Haynes manual has a little bit of wiring help in the last few pages, but not every wire is shown. I'm going to take the harness back out again tomorrow and reverify the pins. It also shows the colors for the VSS, but not the OSS wires, so I may be able to verify that is connected correctly.

I wonder if the orange speedo gear is correct for my 3.27's. Speedo doesn't appear to be accurate based on seat of the pants, but could be wrong. I found the chart correlating the output shaft to gear ratio on a different bulletin board.

Lonnnie told me before I started that his tune program would be good with the 2002 transmission's differences.

I really want to avoid pulling the tranny again. The TC was drop shipped by Lonnie, I'm guessing through a Ford parts supplier he works through, but I suppose that doesn't mean Ford couldn't have screwed up a reman.

Transmission was a 35k mile takeout from LKQ. All I did was put a filter in it and swap converters prior to install.

Definitely using new hardware. Cheap insurance.
I already mentioned in a previous post that the orange gear is NOT correct. That would be for like 3.73 or something. You need the Gray Gear - 18 tooth. That's what I use with my 3.27s. I use stock tire size, BTW.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Looking at the bulkhead connector. No excuses, but the wires are pretty discolored and dirty, and even though I thought I swapped them based on position more than color (compared the old and the new plugs), I may have the TCC and SS2 wires swapped around. I have the original 02 plug, and what looks like purple and orange stripe on the 02 plug is the SS2 #8 hole. On the 97 harness, the wire that matches it closest is in the TCC #3 hole. I have what appears to be a brown and orange stripe wire in the TCC #8 hole. The diagram says it's R/LB, which to me would mean Red/light brown stripe. Could be discoloration. That would mean I was AFU in my original posting...

I'll repin and retest when I get back home Monday...

Verified the OSS and VSS connectors were correct, per the Haynes manual it's Grey/Black stripe, with a red wire. Also physically impossible to swap them without unwrapping the entire harness; just not enough wire. Ordering the grey speedo gear as well, per your advice, Rick. Thanks.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

Submariners do it deeper...

Last edited by terraplane8; 09-10-2010 at 02:53 PM. Reason: punctuation
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-14-2010, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Problem solved. earlier posts edited to say so... Once again, I proved I'm not infallible.

Bulkhead connector was repinned incorrectly. I used the P71 page, and found one difference: One wire color is different; the medium brown/red-orange stripe wire on my 97 is the TCC wire (the p71 drawing says it's R/LB, which I would guess is red/light brown striped, on the 97-earlier models). It's the brown/yellow stripe wire on the 98-up design. Be careful not to mix up the TCC wire and the SS2 purple/orange stripe wires. I did... They are almost the same color. Chalk it up to dirty and faded wire colors, although I thought I swapped them using their positions more than the colors.

My guess is that the TCC signal going to SS2 was causing it to shift to second gear, and the TCC was getting the SS2 signal at the same time. That would explain the 1 and 2 gears feeling normal. When it went into third, the SS2 signal going to the TCC went away, causing loss of lockup and the freewheeling. There's probably more t it, but that's what my small mind thinks.

Test drive went just fine, shifts quickly but smooth. Better than the original stock 97 version. 100% stock Grand Marquis transmission with the Marauder converter. OD shift feels fine, so Lonnie's tuning program works with it. Overall, it's not harsh like the old Reinhart transmission was. I couldn't hammer on it since the streets are wet from rain, and it breaks loose easily. I'm not 100% sold that I have the wrong (orange) speedo gear installed, but I'll get the grey one and compare. The chart at SCCOA says I need the orange one with 3.27's, stock tires, and the 8 tooth output shaft, but Rick has the experience here, and I'm willing to listen.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

97 LX, 4.6, Dynomax catback, Mustang MAF/intake tube and Aviator throttle body, Xcalibrator2 by Lonnie at BOC, 180 t-stat, Super Coupe wheels with 235/60/16's, Kenny Brown strut tower brace, Tokico Blues, Eibach Pro-kit, some strategically placed MN12 Performance polyurethane pieces, '02 Grand Marquis transmission

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-14-2010, 01:08 AM
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Thanks for the compliment, terraplane8, but just check your speed with a gps and see how far, if any, it's off; we can start from there. The tire height may be slightly different or something, who knows? What worked for me may or may not work for you, so I would just check your speed against a known good like a gps first before you switch anything.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-14-2010, 02:01 AM
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So are you running 235/60/16 with 3.27 gears and the 8-tooth output shaft from the GM trans? If so, the 20-tooth orange speedo gear is in fact correct. If you swapped to the 7-tooth output shaft (which from this thread doesn't sound like you did), then you would need a 17-tooth gray gear.

As an aside, with factory 215/70/15 tires, 3.27 gears, and the 7-tooth output shaft, 96-97 MN12s should have the 18-tooth gray gears but they in fact came with 19-tooth tan gears.

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-14-2010, 07:08 AM
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Good to hear.

That's why I don't pay attention to wire colors when I am repinning a connector. I only look at the pin location. I learned that a very long time ago. Do it one wire at a time and double check it, including by using color, as you are doing it.

Glad that you got it sorted out. I know that stuff can sometimes not be the easiest thing to do if you aren't used to it.

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Last edited by Darrin; 09-14-2010 at 07:12 AM. Reason: not awake yet
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