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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-10-2010, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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2001 Mustang 4r70w

I was at the track last night testing out my new converter made one pass, the car didn't feel right right and didn't shift right it made a couple weird clunking noises. I stopped at the end of the track and got on the return road I clicked the O/D button to let it shift into O/D it shifted just fine, about 30 seconds later OD was gone, I got back to my trailer and I realized reverse was gone as well. I haven't taken the pan off yet but I am guessing the O/D brand broke? Looking for some input.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 08:38 AM
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You say "new converter", who is the manufacturer?

I would look at the reverse sun shell to make sure the gear is still firmly attached instead of spinning freely. You didn't mention whether you had 2nd gear or not afterward and if you only drove it that way one time then you might not have noticed it missing 2nd while downshifting after whatever went wrong happened.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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You say "new converter", who is the manufacturer?

I would look at the reverse sun shell to make sure the gear is still firmly attached instead of spinning freely. You didn't mention whether you had 2nd gear or not afterward and if you only drove it that way one time then you might not have noticed it missing 2nd while downshifting after whatever went wrong happened.

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The converter was built by Precision industries single disc lockup and the transmission has a performance automatic valve body I am also running a B&M transmission cooler. I had it up on jack stands at the track and it had 1-3 gear no reverese and no O/D. I pulled the transmssion out last night and the fluid is clean no metal, which is a good sign.

I have a friend who a master tech at a Ford dealership and he does all their transmission work he is going to rebuild it for me, looking for some suggestions on rebuild kits. Here is a list of modifications done to the car:

4.6L, Vortech supercharger 11psi, methanol injection (380WHP), 4.10 rearend gears, PI 3200 converter, PA valvebody.

Last edited by smythge; 07-11-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 09:30 AM
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Man, that sucks since the sun shell is the one common link with reverse and 4th. If it was the culprit though then you will be missing 2nd as well. So if you are positive that it has 2nd gear then you have at least 2 problems instead of 1 and that is darned unfortunate. Sounds like expensive toast now instead of a cheap and easy fix to replace a broken sun shell.

Most likely this scenario where you still have 2nd gear means the type of failure has occurred where you are going to need to send that converter back to have it cut and cleaned.

Sorry to hear. Drain and check the fluid to see if it has garbage in it. Hopefully it isn't too bad.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2010, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Man, that sucks since the sun shell is the one common link with reverse and 4th. If it was the culprit though then you will be missing 2nd as well. So if you are positive that it has 2nd gear then you have at least 2 problems instead of 1 and that is darned unfortunate. Sounds like expensive toast now instead of a cheap and easy fix to replace a broken sun shell.

Most likely this scenario where you still have 2nd gear means the type of failure has occurred where you are going to need to send that converter back to have it cut and cleaned.

Sorry to hear. Drain and check the fluid to see if it has garbage in it. Hopefully it isn't too bad.

Darrin
The fluid is clean nothing in it at all, I pulled the filter and the valve body and everything was clean. The more I think about it maybe it didn't have second on the return road when I stopped to pick up my time slip I noticed it did not want to shift from 1-2 there was a big delay maybe it actually shifted from 1-3
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Transmisison is in the shop, it was the weld on the reverese sun shell gear that broke, and luckily it was a clean break, so no other damage.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 08:32 PM
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lucky. don't forget to leave O/D off when you race.. or you might snap a stub shaft.. pic of that floating around here somewhere


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 08:46 PM
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Transmisison is in the shop, it was the weld on the reverese sun shell gear that broke, and luckily it was a clean break, so no other damage.
Figured it was that. I have seen quite a few that happened to. Such a simple thing that causes so much trouble.

Good that you are getting it taken care of. Hope they are kind to you on charging for the repair.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 08:46 PM
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lucky. don't forget to leave O/D off when you race.. or you might snap a stub shaft.. pic of that floating around here somewhere
I can get you a bunch of nasty pics of that kind of thing. The cars are getting quicker and the tuners are getting... less smart? It's a fact that when you have a car that goes over 127.5 mph, most tuners aren't going to be able to prevent the computer from overriding the OD cancel button.

They have been showing up more and more often as the reason people are needing a better, badder or stronger transmission. Ugly fact is that they didn't originally need a better transmission. They needed a bettter tuner and/or better advice. It's been getting a lot worse on this over the last few years and I am not the type who will suggest a stronger shaft as the cure because the shaft isn't the problem. A stock shaft is all you need and a stronger one just moves the weakest link down the line. You simply cannot put a transmission into a bind like that and expect good things to happen.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-20-2010, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
I can get you a bunch of nasty pics of that kind of thing. The cars are getting quicker and the tuners are getting... less smart? It's a fact that when you have a car that goes over 127.5 mph, most tuners aren't going to be able to prevent the computer from overriding the OD cancel button.

They have been showing up more and more often as the reason people are needing a better, badder or stronger transmission. Ugly fact is that they didn't originally need a better transmission. They needed a bettter tuner and/or better advice. It's been getting a lot worse on this over the last few years and I am not the type who will suggest a stronger shaft as the cure because the shaft isn't the problem. A stock shaft is all you need and a stronger one just moves the weakest link down the line. You simply cannot put a transmission into a bind like that and expect good things to happen.

Darrin
Is the sun shell in the 4R75W stronger and will it fit in the 4R70W? I have little experience with these trannys, but I do read a lot and that thought came to mind...

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 08:20 AM
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I use those 4R75 shells all the time because it is actually a better design and the shell itself is stronger because it is made of stainless. The part number I use is 9L3Z-7A019-A.

Darrin

Edit: And it does fit a 4R70W. Forgot to note that.

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Last edited by Darrin; 07-21-2010 at 08:21 AM. Reason: forgot to add
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
I can get you a bunch of nasty pics of that kind of thing. The cars are getting quicker and the tuners are getting... less smart? It's a fact that when you have a car that goes over 127.5 mph, most tuners aren't going to be able to prevent the computer from overriding the OD cancel button.
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so it can override the OD cancel button? I've heard so many different things about this... some people say it won't ever shift into OD at WOT, and some say it will. Now I hear that not only will it, but it will even if the OD off button has been pressed?
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 10:13 AM
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so it can override the OD cancel button? I've heard so many different things about this... some people say it won't ever shift into OD at WOT, and some say it will. Now I hear that not only will it, but it will even if the OD off button has been pressed?
Oh absolutely it will both shift into OD at WOT and override the OD cancel button. It will even do it at stupid times when certain things have been done and most can't figure out how to get it not to.

I can't post the full screenshot here because it will obviously be too big, but I will give you a link to it so that you can look at it yourself Just click on the link below.

http://bcatransmissions.com/ODoverride.jpg

That is a screenshot straight from the SCT software. I highlighted the parameter and that parameter description that you will find in the lower part of the page will tell you all about it.

So now you can point the "some people" who don't know what they are talking about to something solid to prove this point.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 11:51 AM
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Oh absolutely it will both shift into OD at WOT and override the OD cancel button. It will even do it at stupid times when certain things have been done and most can't figure out how to get it not to.

I can't post the full screenshot here because it will obviously be too big, but I will give you a link to it so that you can look at it yourself Just click on the link below.

http://bcatransmissions.com/ODoverride.jpg

That is a screenshot straight from the SCT software. I highlighted the parameter and that parameter description that you will find in the lower part of the page will tell you all about it.

So now you can point the "some people" who don't know what they are talking about to something solid to prove this point.

Darrin
is the 127.5 changeable?

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 11:54 AM
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is the 127.5 changeable?
It is, but not for the good. I think it shows somewhere there that 127.5 is the maximum for that parameter.

Kinda sucks.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 01:07 PM
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I'm pretty sure i'm not shifting into OD while running on the 1/4 mile but I'm running 3.73's. If I switch to 4.30's is it going to force the shift or is it always at 127 MPH that you have a problem regardless of gearing?

I guess I'm curios how people get around the OD thing if they are running 130+ MPH?

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 02:23 PM
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Here is my problem. I don't honestly know on these older vehicles. I never got to mess with many that used a VSS and were actually that quick or who had gearing like you plan.

But, assuming that your car came with 3.27 gears and you are going to 4.30's then that might take the speed to ignore the OD cancel from 127.5 to about 97mph. That is assuming a fairly big if here. The if is if the computer is reading this speed via the OSS or interpolatiing it from RPM instead of a speed reading from the VSS. If it is getting the speed from the VSS and that signal is corrected via something like a speedcal, then I would say that it will still shift at the same override speed as before because the computer isn't seeing anything different on that signal.

But honestly I am going to tell you that I don't know for sure. All I can do is offer scenarios based on educated guesses. My educated guess would be that the computer in your car is getting that speed from the VSS and if you correct that then it might still shift the same as long as the tune is set up properly for the gears.

Somebody bring me a really damn quick one of these cars and I will let you know for sure. I will set it up to not make that shift no matter what at WOT while I am at it.

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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I use those 4R75 shells all the time because it is actually a better design and the shell itself is stronger because it is made of stainless. The part number I use is 9L3Z-7A019-A.

Darrin

Edit: And it does fit a 4R70W. Forgot to note that.
I orderd part # 9L3Z-7A019-A Here is response I got: The 'heavy duty' (riveted stainless version) sun gear and shell has been superceded again by a part that is welded, like the version that broke in your trans. I hate when heavy duty parts are replaced by lighter duty ones!!! I am sending it out to have the weld reinforced.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 07:01 PM
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Yeah, that is why I gave you the current part number. Don't worry though, this one is definitely stronger than the one that broke on you. But yes, it still has a spin weld. Thing is that there were a couple of years that had a REALLY crappy spin weld and these aren't those.

Yet...

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-21-2010, 07:19 PM
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silver slut ran mid 11s at low 120s.. just to give you guys an idea of mph vs. et... you need to be bookin pretty damn quick to hit 127


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