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post #1 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Problem with 4R70W

Hi guys
Last Monday I bought 1994 TBitd LX in great shape except one thing. After 20mins I've bought it the transmission started to act wierd - when I tried to go from stop it wont go - RPM are goin up but car is stopped, after a while you feel the gear goes on and car start to move, however the RPM is goin up faster than car is speeding up. It goes like this on 1, 2, D with and without OD, reverse is working great. It doesnt feel like slipping on higher gears like 3 and 4, it switches with no problems, smoothly. The oil level is good and smell burnt,

Any idea whats dead? I hope its nothing serious...

thx
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post #2 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 08:54 AM
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I'm no expert but it sounds like the Torque Converter, Bad Check Balls (FORD Disease), or Dirt in your Valve Body. You could try a fluid and filter change to clean out the valve body (the brain of the transmission). It could be a bad band as well, that's what happened to mine, you rev high but the car goes mad slow. That's usually caused by particulates caught in the valve body which screws up the functions of the transmission. There are magnets in most valve bodies to catch most particulates, but it only works on really fine particles and doesn't catch everything.



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post #3 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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thanks , when it happened to you was it like this on every gear or just one particular i.e. 1 or 2?

Do I have to take the tranny out or I can do it on car just removing oil pan?
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post #4 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 09:59 AM
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That isn't the torque converter if you have reverse and it is "working great". As long as the fluid is truly full then it sounds like the forward clutch is toast. That is even more likely if OD feels rock solid.

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post #5 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 10:17 AM
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Put the car in 2nd manually at a stop and try to go. That will usually tell you if the direct clutch is slipping.
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post #6 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 12:05 PM
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Mine was 1st and 2nd would hang and shift way late, eventually it just broke the band for gears 2-3 and it won't engage Drive. Reverse also clunks and is messed up on mine. That's why i'm doing the 5 speed swap



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post #7 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
That isn't the torque converter if you have reverse and it is "working great". As long as the fluid is truly full then it sounds like the forward clutch is toast. That is even more likely if OD feels rock solid.
Yes, on reverse goes perfect, what do you mean by rock solid OD?


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Put the car in 2nd manually at a stop and try to go. That will usually tell you if the direct clutch is slipping.
Same thing...
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post #8 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 02:14 PM
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I agree with it sounding like the forward clutch is fried. Direct only applies in 3rd and 4th, forward applies in 1st,2nd and 3rd. Overdrive and reverse do not use the forward clutch.
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post #9 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyd0g View Post
I agree with it sounding like the forward clutch is fried. Direct only applies in 3rd and 4th, forward applies in 1st,2nd and 3rd. Overdrive and reverse do not use the forward clutch.
Alan
What he said and what I meant to say - FORWARD clutch(not direct clutch).

Though I guess you could have a seal gone causing low pressure as well which will fry the clutches.
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post #10 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
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thanks guys, so what i need to buy is the first thing from the bottom here right?
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...parttype,12199
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post #11 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 03:34 AM
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Plan B, a 98-02 4r70w from a mustang or civilian crown victoria, swap the speedometer gear to one that will correct the ratio ( I can calculate this for you as well as the articles on this site) swap in your tcc solenoid or a new one preferably, repin the harness with the instructions from P71 interceptor.com. if the converter is small pattern get a markVIII flexplate....Done and it will last 3 times as long. For less money. A clutch plate kit alone will not fix it. I sell a kit that is about as complete as any you can get, but I guarantee you will want to change hard parts that will exceed the value of a moderate mileage transmission. If you desire performance a complete built unit is a better choice, let someone who knows what they are doing do that or the tools to fix it will exceed the value of the transmission.
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post #12 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 04:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, but the major problem is I live in Europe where finding a good 4R70W is impossible, there are few from new 2005-2010 mustang but I dont think it will fit so probably my only chance is to fix the one I have...

What about this master repair kit? http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,8496
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post #13 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 07:24 AM
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Yeah, the transmissions in those year Mustangs are the 5R55S instead of the 4R70W and that won't work at all either physically, electronically or control wise.

Sounds like rebuild time unfortunately. I bet it would cost a fortune to ship a whole transmission that far. LOL

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post #14 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 10:14 AM
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Yeah, around $700. I have done it. Parts list minimum I would suggest.
Rebuild kit with clutches and steels
Accumulator pistons
reverse piston and cap
overdrive servo
new design reverse drum with diode
epc solenoid
pressure regulator valve
filter
spiral retainer for intermediate diode
overdrive band
I'm sure if I thought about it a little longer I could add a few to that list but there is a basic start to figure cost.
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post #15 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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700$ just for shipping or in total?

I was thinking just about forward clutch and new oil with filter (and somthing else which I'll see after i take the tranny out), I'm pretty broke at the moment and just want to make this car works...
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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 01:27 PM
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Just shipping, internationally shipping large items is difficult to say the least.
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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-23-2010, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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thats expensive...

guys will those clutch kits or master repair kit i've mentioned before will fix this problem since i'm really broke right now and want to have bird runnin?
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-23-2010, 02:20 PM
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No it will be a waste of money, I gave you a minimum parts list.
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 04:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Alan
Do you know is there any idea that I'm so unlucky guy to have my tranny broken less than half an hour after i bought the car, or previous owner knew about it? And is there any way I can proove it? And last question - What oil should be in 4R70W? Right now I have mineral dexron II which looks little too cheap for sensitive transmission like this. Previous owner replaced oil cooler recently and maybe his mechanic put wrong type of oil... I just try to find reason why it got broken
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 07:12 AM
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Mercon V fluid only. Dex III/Merc III has been used by shops with friction additives to "convert" the fluid to spec. but the only true correct fluid for these is Mercon V

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post #21 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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what about dexron IID - can it destroy trans?
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post #22 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 11:30 AM
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Dont cheap out! Get Mercon V that's the ONLY fluid that should go in this trans.

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post #23 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 01:48 PM
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X2 Mercon V or Nothing At All

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post #24 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingu View Post
what about dexron IID - can it destroy trans?
If you use Dexron fluid, you MUST use the Merc V additive, it's not that expensive. Lubegard makes it for about $10, it's in a green bottle.

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post #25 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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guys i meant i have dex IID in my transmission right now and i'm wondering could it be the cause of this trouble
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post #26 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
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guys i meant i have dex IID in my transmission right now and i'm wondering could it be the cause of this trouble
Usually you will just get torque converter shudder. You can try a bottle of the additive, but it sounds like you have something else going on that a "fix-in-a-bottle" isn't going to help.

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post #27 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-25-2010, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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there goes my theory that low quality mineral dexron IID can be cause of dying of forward clutch in one hour after gettin a car...
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post #28 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 04:27 AM Thread Starter
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Hi guys, is there any way to connect computer and check parameters of the tranny while its working? If yes, what interface is this? OBDII? And what software should be used?
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post #29 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 10:09 AM
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There are devices for that, When I worked at aamco I got schematics for one. You can buy them, but buying a transmission will be cheaper.
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post #30 of 76 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 12:59 PM
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I have had awesome luck with full synthetic oils. I personally use and suggest Mobil 1 ATF. I have heard good things about others, but cannot confirm any of that. I can tell you that I have personally seen very bad things with purple stuff and these transmissions.

Other than that, only use Mercon V.

Also, the wrong trans fluid probably probably isn't what caused the issue with a forward clutch for several reasons. To me it sounds like it just died.

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