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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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kinda in a bind

so the trans in my 94 tbird needs to be rebuilt so i was going to do the jmod and have it all redone at a shop i was figuring 700$ or so....then my car started smoking so ive been checking into rebuilding it myself or having the shop do it for 2500$$ and what im gettin at is the trans is worse off than the engine right now so instead of the jmod can i just put stiffer springs in the valve body or mabe something else a little cheaper??? i will not put a shift kit in it so any other suggestions any one has i would love to hear thanks for the help. ( and before you start yes im going to rebuild the 4.6 with cams ect ect no pi or crown vic engine swap i like the simplicity of the orig 4.6)

~~~~94 tbird 4.6~~~~
custom spectre cai,air silencer delete,custom thrush exhaust setup
aftermarket temp gauge
jet performance chip
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eibach 1.5" lowring springs,hid head lights w/ led running lights there is more left to list and even more to come
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 07:59 PM
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I'm not educated enough about trans/motors to give you an opinion on what to do but on the cost for the rebuild, $2500 sounds low for a shop to do it especially when you're looking at $96 an hour labor then add the rebuild kit, machine work, etc. Check into it and get details, you get what you pay for.

-Kelly
===================================
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 10:02 PM
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Holy heck, I would think you could have a new one built and shipped to you for that much money?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 10:10 PM
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Holy heck, I would think you could have a new one built and shipped to you for that much money?
I was thinking the same thing. Throw that motor out and buy a used Explorer motor. Check out the thread that porkchop wrote about what you need to do the swap.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=94152

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nicetbird View Post
... ( and before you start yes im going to rebuild the 4.6 with cams ect ect no pi or crown vic engine swap i like the simplicity of the orig 4.6)
You want to talk simplicity? A swap is much more simple than a rebuild; and yes, the PI engine is a 4.6 just like the original, only better.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. FusionŽ Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 12:28 AM
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I've swapped in a PI motor and an NPI motor, and they are essentially the same thing. The changes needed to swap in PI motor are minimal and almost anyone with a brain can do them.

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
I was thinking the same thing. Throw that motor out and buy a used Explorer motor. Check out the thread that porkchop wrote about what you need to do the swap.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=94152



You want to talk simplicity? A swap is much more simple than a rebuild; and yes, the PI engine is a 4.6 just like the original, only better.
ya but if i got a pi engine i would also want it rebuilt just so i didnt have any problems down the road plus buying one and doing the mods to make it work i feel its easier this way for right now.

also yah 2500 aint bad really but if i did it my self i could upgrade the cams the cam gears put roller rockers on and all the rebuild kit stuff for about 1800 2000$$ and that with the shop doing all the machining. idk my main concern was with the trans its going to get rebuilt im just not sure if ill have the cash for the jmod along with the engine and trans rebuild. anyone know of something diffrent to do for stiffer shifts?

~~~~94 tbird 4.6~~~~
custom spectre cai,air silencer delete,custom thrush exhaust setup
aftermarket temp gauge
jet performance chip
18" alba wheels on 235 45 18 pzero nero pirellis
eibach 1.5" lowring springs,hid head lights w/ led running lights there is more left to list and even more to come
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 01:42 AM
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No offense but judging by your current mods and future plans, building the trans and motor yourself will likely lead to way more problems down the road than a junkyard motor will have. These motors were properly assembled at the factory and have proven to last well north of 300k miles with nothing but oil changes. Somehow I feel steps will be skipped or overlooked and parts will be elcheapo ebay junk when your current expenses include: custom thrush exhaust setup,1" throttle body spacer, jet performance chip,air temp sensor resistor chip aftermarket voltage regulator.

2500 is very optimistic for a rebuild and utterly unrealistic when cams, springs and "roller rockers" (which is stock unless you're talking roller tipped ones, which are about a grand on their own) are included. And say all this does somehow fall into that budget, are you going to continue using the craptacular F4 NPI heads? Or the non fully cross bolted stock iron block? Or the awful everything in the 94 4R70w?

You can find 98+ low mile 4R70ws on carpart for under $500, lower mile iron block PI motors for the same. Throw in a set of cams and you'll still likely have money to spare

-Matt
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 02:10 AM
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Of the few places that I have a shop to recomend to install a proper trans there is a place in pheonix that has installed 2 of my transmissions and properly completed the required changes, then returned to me the correct parts I needed back. I am certain that between me and him we can get a much better transmission for a little less money, including a increased stall converter and flexplate.
Alan

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyd0g View Post
Of the few places that I have a shop to recomend to install a proper trans there is a place in pheonix that has installed 2 of my transmissions and properly completed the required changes, then returned to me the correct parts I needed back. I am certain that between me and him we can get a much better transmission for a little less money, including a increased stall converter and flexplate.
Alan
I'll have to keep that in mind for when I'm ready to do my transmission. I wonder if it's the same place that built the one I have in the car.

-Kelly
===================================
Fuelly
94 LX 3.8L NA : Daily Driver. 270k on chassis, 10k on motor.
90 35th Anniversary SC : Stored for the Winter.
Needs Harmonic Balancer, complete suspension overhaul.
WTB: 90 SC BHJ harmonic balancer
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
No offense but judging by your current mods and future plans, building the trans and motor yourself will likely lead to way more problems down the road than a junkyard motor will have. These motors were properly assembled at the factory and have proven to last well north of 300k miles with nothing but oil changes. Somehow I feel steps will be skipped or overlooked and parts will be elcheapo ebay junk when your current expenses include: custom thrush exhaust setup,1" throttle body spacer, jet performance chip,air temp sensor resistor chip aftermarket voltage regulator.

2500 is very optimistic for a rebuild and utterly unrealistic when cams, springs and "roller rockers" (which is stock unless you're talking roller tipped ones, which are about a grand on their own) are included. And say all this does somehow fall into that budget, are you going to continue using the craptacular F4 NPI heads? Or the non fully cross bolted stock iron block? Or the awful everything in the 94 4R70w?

You can find 98+ low mile 4R70ws on carpart for under $500, lower mile iron block PI motors for the same. Throw in a set of cams and you'll still likely have money to spare
i agree to a point. 2500 IS for a stock engine rebuild from a shop. which is why id have the shop do most of the rebuild and i assemble everything when i got it back and spend the same to put a cams ect as i would for them to do the complete rebuild. as for the trans ya ive been reading up and i hear the pre 96 arent worth the price ud get to scrap em. as for my current mods they were professionally installed not "jerry" rigged (to keep it clean) i went with what i could do for a college student income. it was fun while it lasted installing the cheap stuff . i dont want a race car i just want a quick fun reliable car so ill do some more reading up on the pi heads and go from there cuz im still not completely sold

~~~~94 tbird 4.6~~~~
custom spectre cai,air silencer delete,custom thrush exhaust setup
aftermarket temp gauge
jet performance chip
18" alba wheels on 235 45 18 pzero nero pirellis
eibach 1.5" lowring springs,hid head lights w/ led running lights there is more left to list and even more to come
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 08:24 PM
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I think the point Matt was getting at was you are probably not competent enough to complete the job. If you had been reading and researching you would not have bought the junk you have already. Your current mods were installed by a "professional"? Do yourself a favor and seek a different professional cause the air temp resistor pile of crap is probably doing more harm than good. If you need a pro to install a 1" spacer or auto zone special cai, you cant handle what you are thinking of doing.

Will

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 03:54 PM
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No offense to anyone, but I laughed just a little when I read "put roller rockers on"

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nicetbird View Post
i agree to a point. 2500 IS for a stock engine rebuild from a shop. which is why id have the shop do most of the rebuild and i assemble everything when i got it back and spend the same to put a cams ect as i would for them to do the complete rebuild. as for the trans ya ive been reading up and i hear the pre 96 arent worth the price ud get to scrap em. as for my current mods they were professionally installed not "jerry" rigged (to keep it clean) i went with what i could do for a college student income. it was fun while it lasted installing the cheap stuff . i dont want a race car i just want a quick fun reliable car so ill do some more reading up on the pi heads and go from there cuz im still not completely sold
Matt (XR7-4.6) knows more about how these engines work and what mods actually help than most anyone here. You're getting a lot of free help from some of the best minds on the forum and thinking that somehow your current mods are actually helping your car in the least.

I'm not going to be condescending or disrespectful, but you need to learn when to take the free advice that you're given and run with it.

2011 Dodge Durango Crew 5.7L HEMI

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