4r70w still running too hot with cooler? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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4r70w still running too hot with cooler?

Ive got a 4r70w with a 3800 stall and an 11 x7 bm cooler mounted up in the front bumper

I was datalogging today with my laptop after having some weird issues with the trans lately ( random 3rd to 4th downshifting, etc.) and noticed it was running 210-220 degrees today.

Im assuming this cant be good.

The weird thing is that the fluid seems to struggle to heat up in the winter
( converter wont lock up for 10 minutes)


I was thinking about adding a second cooler since this seems to be burning up my fluid real fast.

Could it just be the location of my cooler is bad or maybe the coolant is heating up the fluid, coolant was running about 210 also.

Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:09 PM
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get some pics of the cooler setup including lines.
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post #3 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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I can try, its dark out now.

Here is a picture showing you where its at. Ill explain how its setup.

Its mounted right in the front but mostly hidden up in a little cubby of the front bumper.

The metal line running from the factory cooler is cut in half and the cooler is wired in between.




I can get better pictures tomorrow but the lines are fine, not kinked or anything.
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post #4 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:26 PM
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Ok I'll cut to the point, limit the rubber to 8 inches in the longest run, change it to 3/8 lines and run the cooler in series before the radiator. If that doesn't do it the transmission is slipping.
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post #5 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I'll cut to the point, limit the rubber to 8 inches in the longest run, change it to 3/8 lines and run the cooler in series before the radiator. If that doesn't do it the transmission is slipping.
Alan


Im using the 3/8 rubber lines that came with the kit and I dont think the runs are longer than 8 inches.

Can you explain what you mean by running the cooler in series?

Isnt there only one way to run it?

And I was datalogging slip across converter, nothing abnormal and keep in mind this is a rebuilt, upgraded pretty much everything 4r70w within 30k miles.

The car just went [email protected] 121 with 384 rwhp...I dont think its slipping.
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post #6 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Its a 13k btu cooler by the way and these temps are with it about 90 outside
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post #7 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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I guess I should try to see if moving the cooler to a better spot helps...
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post #8 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:47 PM
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Get a real cooler that's built for babies get the 45,000 btu true cool that's what I run temps with 100 degrees don't go above 150-160

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post #9 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Get a real cooler that's built for babies get the 45,000 btu true cool that's what I run temps with 100 degrees don't go above 150-160
Lol, I think your right...

Im gonna buy a tru cool 40k btu and see how that works.
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post #10 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have any idea if this could cause the transmission to do funny things?

It makes sense because it would only do it during the hottest part of the day, I took it out later in the night and the temps would barely go 190-200 and I couldnt get it to do anything weird.

It would go 4-3-4-3-4-3 for no reason...usually when I got on it and got the fluid a bit hotter I guess
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post #11 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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post #12 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:14 PM
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There is no way the rubber is less than 8 inches unless you made some steel up. I'll be posting some pics of a setup tonight, I'll try to remember to put a link here when I do. Yes coolers can be run many different ways.
Stand alone= without the radiator
Before the radiator or after the radiator.
After the radiator is best for max cooling on a small cooler. Before the radiator with a medium cooler is great for cold weather environments as it keeps the fluid the right temp or stand alone with a large cooler works quite well for hot combinations that do not see winter driving or you can block off the airflow for the winter with a piece of cardboard.
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post #13 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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There is no way the rubber is less than 8 inches unless you made some steel up. I'll be posting some pics of a setup tonight, I'll try to remember to put a link here when I do. Yes coolers can be run many different ways.
Stand alone= without the radiator
Before the radiator or after the radiator.
After the radiator is best for max cooling on a small cooler. Before the radiator with a medium cooler is great for cold weather environments as it keeps the fluid the right temp or stand alone with a large cooler works quite well for hot combinations that do not see winter driving or you can block off the airflow for the winter with a piece of cardboard.
Alan

The rubber connects to a metal tube that carries the fluid from the radiator to the transmission.

The cooler is connected in the middle of it and the rubber connects to the metal tubing...it is probably around 8 inches of tubing.

Either way, I feel as if the cooler is too small. The oil temp never really goes down..it remains stable when im cruising but it seems like the cooler isnt actually cooling and the temp flys up as soon as the converter is unlocked or I get on it.
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post #14 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:48 PM
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220 degree's is a bit on the high side. I usually try to keep a trans between 180-190, anything over 200 is eventually going to cause trans damage.

What's the fluid look like as in the color/smell?

Also are you SURE it's going in and out of overdrive (4th), and NOT just the converter locking/unlocking? A stock 4R70W will lock up in 3rd when the speed is great enough (over 35mph, I think) and continue locked as it shifts into OD. My trans will lockup as soon as I go over 40mph doesn't matter if it's dead cold or up to running temp.

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post #15 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:51 PM
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If you have a stacked-plate type cooler, it will warm faster in cooler weather than the tube and fin type will.

With the high stall converter, ditch the radiator tank cooler and run the BIG cooler as a stand alone transmission cooler. BOTH the tranny and engine temps will be lower. Do it now and put in fresh tranny fluid for the longevity of the transmission before it's too late. As a rule of thumb, for every 20* over 175*, the fluid life is halved.

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At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up
If cold weather becomes a problem, you can run a thermostatic valve with the cooler which basically bypasses the cooler until the fluid warms up where it will start to open flow to the cooler.
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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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220 degree's is a bit on the high side. I usually try to keep a trans between 180-190, anything over 200 is eventually going to cause trans damage.

What's the fluid look like as in the color/smell?

Also are you SURE it's going in and out of overdrive (4th), and NOT just the converter locking/unlocking?

Yea, thats why I was worried and ordered a better cooler.

The fluid is pretty new, probably 10k miles on it however it definately had signs of being too hot...slight burn smell and slight discoloration.

I flushed 5 new quarts into it today.


and im 100% sure it was going 4th to 3rd and not just unlocking.

The problem seems to only happen when the fluid is hot cause I cant get it to do it at all when its night time and cooler out.

Hopefully I didnt hurt anything...gonna try and take it easy untill I can get the bigger cooler and see if that helps.
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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:56 PM
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Unless you bent new steel lines for it I don't see how it is possible to only have 8 inches of rubber with the cooler in front of the radiator. If you bent the stock lines out to meet the rubber hose that is probably your problem even if you do not see it from the outside. with a high stall converter you cannot go wrong going 3/8 tubing.
Some things to keep in mind.
Cooler type. Straight through coolers do not hold the fluid long enough to cool it (not your problem)

Restricted flow from a bent line or a rubber hose with too sharp of a bend, can quickly overheat a transmission and explain slow to warm in the winter. the fluid moves too slow.

Airflow, I like to have the cooler at least 1/2 from the radiator, the farther the better as long as you aren't talking about more than a foot where airflow would be a problem. Make sure the cooler is in a place the fan will draw air through it.

Rubber hose insulates the fluid, metal tube dissipates heat.

Fluid type, make sure you use the right stuff. More expensive isn't always better, pay attention to the ratings on it.

Hope that helps.
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by driller View Post
If you have a stacked-plate type cooler, it will warm faster in cooler weather than the tube and fin type will.

With the high stall converter, ditch the radiator tank cooler and run the BIG cooler as a stand alone transmission cooler. BOTH the tranny and engine temps will be lower. Do it now and put in fresh tranny fluid for the longevity of the transmission before it's too late. As a rule of thumb, for every 20* over 175*, the fluid life is halved.



If cold weather becomes a problem, you can run a thermostatic valve with the cooler which basically bypasses the cooler until the fluid warms up where it will start to open flow to the cooler.


Hmm, the cold weather would be a problem cause I drive my car all year round and already have a bit of trouble getting the fluid hot enough in the winter.

I drained the pan and swapped 5 qts of fresh fluid into the trans today.

Is it really that beneficial to run the trans cooler as a stand alone?

Im honestly not even sure how I would do that
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Unless you bent new steel lines for it I don't see how it is possible to only have 8 inches of rubber with the cooler in front of the radiator. If you bent the stock lines out to meet the rubber hose that is probably your problem even if you do not see it from the outside. with a high stall converter you cannot go wrong going 3/8 tubing.
Some things to keep in mind.
Cooler type. Straight through coolers do not hold the fluid long enough to cool it (not your problem)

Restricted flow from a bent line or a rubber hose with too sharp of a bend, can quickly overheat a transmission and explain slow to warm in the winter. the fluid moves too slow.

Airflow, I like to have the cooler at least 1/2 from the radiator, the farther the better as long as you aren't talking about more than a foot where airflow would be a problem. Make sure the cooler is in a place the fan will draw air through it.

Rubber hose insulates the fluid, metal tube dissipates heat.

Fluid type, make sure you use the right stuff. More expensive isn't always better, pay attention to the ratings on it.

Hope that helps.
Alan


Thanks, I will check the tubing again and make sure its not bent anywhere, I have drained fluid from those lines and it comes out of there in a hurry though.
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:03 PM
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My trans fluid in winter only makes 95-100 degrees lol but I don't drive the car enough to matter

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post #21 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by justinschmidt1 View Post
Hmm, the cold weather would be a problem cause I drive my car all year round and already have a bit of trouble getting the fluid hot enough in the winter.

I drained the pan and swapped 5 qts of fresh fluid into the trans today.

Is it really that beneficial to run the trans cooler as a stand alone?

Im honestly not even sure how I would do that
It's not too hard, you'd just take the line's that go into the radiator and make them go JUST to the external cooler. You just have to make sure you know which line is the input and then the other is the output (going back to the trans).

For fluid in a 4R70W I always use:



I just noticed your in DE, where about's are you? If you need help in person I'd be more then willing to lend a hand.

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post #22 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:28 PM
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I have a stock TC and transmission, but I drive it hard, and even with ambient temps in the 110s I rarely see 185 degrees. I see 210 for coolant temp frequently, so the cooler is cooling the fluid more than the radiator is heating it up.

I have it go through the radiator, then the 45k cooler, back to the transmission. I don't have to worry about cold temps (it hits 32 degrees maybe 15 times a year, barely, I don't have to drive the car) so I should bypass the radiator and see how that does. I have a really piss poor setup, destined to fail, but it hasn't in 6 years. I slip the rubber hose over the flared end of the metal tube and double clamp it (on my 89 that has rubber sections, I double clamped them and pressure built up between them and split the hose), and I have more like 3 feet or more of rubber hose (the kit didn't have enough, I had to buy more).

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post #23 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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It's not too hard, you'd just take the line's that go into the radiator and make them go JUST to the external cooler. You just have to make sure you know which line is the input and then the other is the output (going back to the trans).

For fluid in a 4R70W I always use:



I just noticed your in DE, where about's are you? If you need help in person I'd be more then willing to lend a hand.
Im in Middletown and Ill probably just stick to running it through the radiator since I do drive the car in freezing temps.

If Im still having problems Ill re consider

Thank you for the offer!

Ive been using valvoline mercon v
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post #24 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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I have a stock TC and transmission, but I drive it hard, and even with ambient temps in the 110s I rarely see 185 degrees. I see 210 for coolant temp frequently, so the cooler is cooling the fluid more than the radiator is heating it up.

I have it go through the radiator, then the 45k cooler, back to the transmission. I don't have to worry about cold temps (it hits 32 degrees maybe 15 times a year, barely, I don't have to drive the car) so I should bypass the radiator and see how that does. I have a really piss poor setup, destined to fail, but it hasn't in 6 years. I slip the rubber hose over the flared end of the metal tube and double clamp it (on my 89 that has rubber sections, I double clamped them and pressure built up between them and split the hose), and I have more like 3 feet or more of rubber hose (the kit didn't have enough, I had to buy more).

Thats basically what I have, rubber tube slipped over metal tube double clamped.

I ordered the bigger cooler so im gonna try that out and see how it works and go from there.
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post #25 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 10:54 PM
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Im in Middletown and Ill probably just stick to running it through the radiator since I do drive the car in freezing temps.

If Im still having problems Ill re consider

Thank you for the offer!

Ive been using valvoline mercon v
Yea, I wouldn't run JUST the cooler since you DD the car. I'd have it go though the rad first then the cooler then back to the trans. I've done this "inline/series" setup on many different car's and truck's and it's always worked fine.

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post #26 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Yea, I wouldn't run JUST the cooler since you DD the car. I'd have it go though the rad first then the cooler then back to the trans. I've done this "inline/series" setup on many different car's and truck's and it's always worked fine.
Gotcha, thats what im gonna do.

Where in Bear do you live?
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post #27 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 11:21 PM
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Gotcha, thats what im gonna do.

Where in Bear do you live?
Right off Route 40 near Governor's Square shopping center. I actually work at the Pep Boy's across the street too.

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post #28 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-10-2011, 06:22 AM
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I run the 45k tru cool max cooler by passed on my DD for years in AZ but recently a shift solenoid went out and maybe its caused by getting too hot but the fluid seems fine. So maybe by passing with out a fan on the cooler isnt the best of ideas for a DD. I first added a 2800 stall TC getting things warmer and then 373 gears warmed it up even more so the 45k cooler may not be up to the task by itself with higher rpm street driving. Remember I by passed because the damn engine would run hot here. Maybe those lines DD posted is all I need.

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post #29 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-10-2011, 06:53 AM
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Rubber hose insulates the fluid, metal tube dissipates heat.
Where does SS Braided line fall into the mix? Worse than rubber for not dissipating heat?

Can this type cooler be used for transmission fluid:

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post #30 of 76 (permalink) Old 08-10-2011, 09:03 AM
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Never ever attach rubber hose to steel line without flaring the end with a bubble to prevent it from blowing off, 1-2 or 3 clamps will not serve as a substitute for proper preperation.
Rubber hose and braided are about the same an insulator.
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