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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Standard drop and replace.

I really hate to post this but really, I've looked and nothing is popping up. .....So I have a 94' Cougar xr7 w/ stock 4r70w transmission and stock 4.6 SOHC engine (Both have about 228,000 miles). Last night when driving I hit about 60 MPH and my transmission slipped out of 4th gear, started blinking the "O/D OFF" (meaning Problem) and then dropped into second gear and did not pass second. The following day I took off the oil pan and found that there were metal shavings inside the oil pan. (Burnt 3/4 gear) Now im in need of a new transmission and so far from reading the 94' year 4r70w are one of the worst made and that I should put in any Mark VIII 98+ any 01- 03' GT' 4r70w.

Nothing I read up on is just for a completely stock, no upgrades done transmission swap. What do I actually need to do besides Re-pin the connector from the 94' style to the 98' + Or the 01'- 03' pin style. Is that really all I have to do before spending the only money I got on a transmission that might not work in my car? Please help me.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 02:47 AM
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IMO it is easier to get a ready to go late model transmission, give me a call and I will explain it more in detail 513 898 1580
If it doesn't show I am up late.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 03:00 AM Thread Starter
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IMO it is easier to get a ready to go late model transmission, give me a call and I will explain it more in detail 513 898 1580
If it doesn't show I am up late.
Alan
Thanks, I expect to get a trans. from a local Pick-A-Parts yard. I really don't have a lot of money to put out on my car right now either. This is sort of my last resort type of thing. Is that even worth doing?
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 03:44 AM
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Like I said give me a call and I will try to tell you the possible scenario's on how to go about it. no plug and play transmission used OEM is worth installing. If you want to do it a few times before you do it right then go that route. For the same money you can put a low mileage transmission. These cars are old and don't interchange so the yards think the good transmissions are gold, later model units aren't in demand so the prices are better but they can be changed to work. You can do that yourself or get someone who knows how to do it. Just swapping the required parts over is fairly simple for me. I can't suggest it to someone who isn't familiar with transmissions however.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
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Like I said give me a call and I will try to tell you the possible scenario's on how to go about it. no plug and play transmission used OEM is worth installing. If you want to do it a few times before you do it right then go that route. For the same money you can put a low mileage transmission. These cars are old and don't interchange so the yards think the good transmissions are gold, later model units aren't in demand so the prices are better but they can be changed to work. You can do that yourself or get someone who knows how to do it. Just swapping the required parts over is fairly simple for me. I can't suggest it to someone who isn't familiar with transmissions however.
Alan
Again this is like a last resort type of issue. I will definitely give you a call tomorrow. Thanks again.

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 07:25 AM
Kind of slapped together

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Quote:
Future Investments:
Aluminum PI Heads and Intake
Aluminum drive shaft
3.73 gearing
4 wheel disc brakes
Chipped
Let me suggest, instead:

Tuner
4 Wheel Discs
3.73 gearing
Aluminum PI heads and intake
One-piece driveshaft, either aluminum or carbon fibre


BETTER order to do them in, IMO.

You don't need to chip this car - buy the tuner, and you can get mail order tunes for a lot of it (to really wake it up properly, you need a dyno tune, but the mail order tune from the better tuners will STILL be better than the factory tune.)

Check over in the ECC Tuning subforum for suggestions.

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 11:19 AM
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Robert P. is the guy we all go to in the Carolinas - he can hook you up with the right ppl/equipment for the tune and some great advice for future mods.

Dirtyd0g is the Transmission guru here for everyone.

www.robstireandauto.com
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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I think the Aluminum heads and PI intake need to be the first thing on my car....Considering my valves are torn up and im eating a quart of oil every other week.....But then again while I had my engine out I've seemed to notice an oil pan gasket leakage, including my valve cover gaskets.

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  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 05:31 PM
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Well I would give Robert a call and see if he has any or DirtyD0g depending on how much you want to spend I know he is a TrickFlow vendor so IMHO those are the best heads - they have a wicked design that flows really good. That's just my two cents

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 10:37 PM
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Well I would give Robert a call and see if he has any or DirtyD0g depending on how much you want to spend I know he is a TrickFlow vendor so IMHO those are the best heads - they have a wicked design that flows really good. That's just my two cents
Wicked! There is a word we used to use a lot up north, don't hear it must down south! lol

Sorry, not to distract from the thread....

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-08-2011, 11:11 PM
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LOL I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY and moved to PA for most of my adult life haha. Can't get all that "up north" out of me I guess.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Before I forget!!.......If hypothetically I decided to use the 8 tooth setup from the 98+ trans, do I have to absolutely get the speedometer re-calibrated that day? or would I be able to post pone it for a bit? I guess what im asking is if anything in my car will break because of the postponement of the calibration.






...sorry to drag this on guys..

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 08:00 AM
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Failure to do so will cause improper shift timing, improper shift feel, improper speedometer reference and could limit the life of the transmission. The gear to fix it is about $9
I have to tell you after talking to you the other day I would be very hesitant to install one within the price range you desire, unless your budget has changed I suggest selling the car. The fluid alone will consume 1/3 of the budget unless you use cheaper dexIII then you will be needing a transmission quickly again or at least a torque converter. That and I assume you will be installing it yourself on the ground, it can be done but these cars are not a 1968 chevrolet. You have to decide which path to take to get the driveshaft out and the exhaust absolutely must be removed. Around here the cars are rusted and a torch is required for removal. Then the studs usually have to be replaced nearly every time.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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I really hate to post this but really, I've looked and nothing is popping up. .....So I have a 94' Cougar xr7 w/ stock 4r70w transmission and stock 4.6 SOHC engine (Both have about 228,000 miles). Last night when driving I hit about 60 MPH and my transmission slipped out of 4th gear, started blinking the "O/D OFF" (meaning Problem) and then dropped into second gear and did not pass second. The following day I took off the oil pan and found that there were metal shavings inside the oil pan. (Burnt 3/4 gear) Now im in need of a new transmission and so far from reading the 94' year 4r70w are one of the worst made and that I should put in any Mark VIII 98+ any 01- 03' GT' 4r70w.

Nothing I read up on is just for a completely stock, no upgrades done transmission swap. What do I actually need to do besides Re-pin the connector from the 94' style to the 98' + Or the 01'- 03' pin style. Is that really all I have to do before spending the only money I got on a transmission that might not work in my car? Please help me.
I think you answered how crappy the early 4R70W actually was/is in your first post.
My gut tells me that you are not really needing a full-on update for performance usage, the OP traveled over 200.000 thousand miles at his power output.
I'm positive that anyone modifying the valve body controls of 4R70W/AODE to achieve "tire barking" shift candy is looking at a long road of repairs ahead of them, and not just confining repairs to the transmission in a MN12 chassis from the added snap. But if you are smart, evaluate what your needs are, Allen can build an extremely strong unit to probably outlast most cars he builds them for, in the OP's case, stock made it 200+ thousand, Allen has built some stout equipment, but sooner or later those forward clutch seals will Pop/Blow/Wear out from usage.
The intermediate roller clutch works just fine and for a long time as long as your not attempting to (squawk) tires in a 3800+ lb vehicle. Cure what ails it certainly, but use your head, send Allen your stocker and he'll send back a unit more than capable of outlasting your car. imho.

Kevin.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 07:17 PM
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I think you answered how crappy the early 4R70W actually was/is in your first post.
My gut tells me that you are not really needing a full-on update for performance usage, the OP traveled over 200.000 thousand miles at his power output.
I'm positive that anyone modifying the valve body controls of 4R70W/AODE to achieve "tire barking" shift candy is looking at a long road of repairs ahead of them, and not just confining repairs to the transmission in a MN12 chassis from the added snap. But if you are smart, evaluate what your needs are, Allen can build an extremely strong unit to probably outlast most cars he builds them for, in the OP's case, stock made it 200+ thousand, Allen has built some stout equipment, but sooner or later those forward clutch seals will Pop/Blow/Wear out from usage.
The intermediate roller clutch works just fine and for a long time as long as your not attempting to (squawk) tires in a 3800+ lb vehicle. Cure what ails it certainly, but use your head, send Allen your stocker and he'll send back a unit more than capable of outlasting your car. imho.

Kevin.
I agree with you that Alan can build one heck of a unit and that's just from what I have read from his many satisfied customers. However those of us looking to prolong the life of the tranny without going for a full on build will (if we are smart) do the J-mod, which will "bark" the tires at WOT even with a mild J-mod. Now again hopefully we are smart about it and upgrade/check the rear, driveshaft etc. to make sure it can handle it.

I just re-read the original post and it seems you have to put a new unit in anyway - my opinion - have one of those two go over it and make sure it's all good, put it in, and enjoy your bird.

The J-mod has been developed by one of the engineers that helped design our trannies, I tend to trust that what he is telling us is legitimate information IMHO. If budget allows I say go with allan or Robert P. as I've said all along and get your self a bullet proof unit but if not do the J-mod and you won't be dissapointed.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 07:19 PM
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The cheapest way to do it is get a low mileage late model unit and swap in the control components you need to make it work.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dirtyd0g View Post
Failure to do so will cause improper shift timing, improper shift feel, improper speedometer reference and could limit the life of the transmission. The gear to fix it is about $9
I have to tell you after talking to you the other day I would be very hesitant to install one within the price range you desire, unless your budget has changed I suggest selling the car. The fluid alone will consume 1/3 of the budget unless you use cheaper dexIII then you will be needing a transmission quickly again or at least a torque converter. That and I assume you will be installing it yourself on the ground, it can be done but these cars are not a 1968 chevrolet. You have to decide which path to take to get the driveshaft out and the exhaust absolutely must be removed. Around here the cars are rusted and a torch is required for removal. Then the studs usually have to be replaced nearly every time.
Alan
My price range has been moved up slightly and will continue to do so. THE LAST thing I would do is sell my cougar. I love my car and dont want to get rid of it. If anything does go wrong with it I will stay dedicated to fixing it.

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-09-2011, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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I've heard that the 98 lincoln mark eight has the same tooth setup as mine and that I should only have to switch the tourque converter,TCC, MLPS, and the flex plate... but again I may be wrong.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 03:18 AM
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This is true and was important 8-10 years ago, now even those are old and worn out. Age is a killer they either have high mileage or have been sitting, both are equally bad.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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This is true and was important 8-10 years ago, now even those are old and worn out. Age is a killer they either have high mileage or have been sitting, both are equally bad.
Alan
How much do you re-build transmissions for?

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  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 07:46 PM
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Prices will vary depending on what is needed to be done, the labor to swap a newer unit into something you can use without problems is typically around $150 where a all out race transmission build may be over $600, Plus parts.
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 08:11 PM
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Sucks you're in California... I just pulled my 4R70W this morning. It operates perfectly and just passed 100K. I'm doing the T45 swap though. And, yea, it is a pain in the a** to drop the trans. I had to pull the complete exhaust & fuel tank just to get to the driveshaft. After ripping all knuckles open getting the O2 sensors free and reaching the upper pass. side bellhousing bolt (*#%!!), I was able to lower it. I'm about 7 hours into it.



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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-11-2011, 10:52 AM
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Sucks you're in California... I just pulled my 4R70W this morning. It operates perfectly and just passed 100K. I'm doing the T45 swap though. And, yea, it is a pain in the a** to drop the trans. I had to pull the complete exhaust & fuel tank just to get to the driveshaft. After ripping all knuckles open getting the O2 sensors free and reaching the upper pass. side bellhousing bolt (*#%!!), I was able to lower it. I'm about 7 hours into it.
I found using a wobble head 3/8 drive ratchet the easiest way to remove that pass. side bolt.Reaching over from drivers side. Providing you have long skinny arms. At 6'3" and 168 pounds I fit that criteria

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-11-2011, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Getting a 97 mark 8 LSC tans. Im not sure if there are any differences between the reg. mark 8 and the LSC. Getting torque converter and all accessories need to fit my car for about 100 from my friend. So are there any differences that might make this not possible?

BTW. Low miles. Im pretty sure it will last at least a year...Thats gives me enough time to save and buy a better trans.

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-11-2011, 06:55 PM
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Check and see if it has a roller clutch or mechanical diode, roller clutch transmissions do not handle spirited driving very well at all.
Alan

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-12-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 96lxcorey View Post
I found using a wobble head 3/8 drive ratchet the easiest way to remove that pass. side bolt.Reaching over from drivers side. Providing you have long skinny arms. At 6'3" and 168 pounds I fit that criteria
The two top bolts are easy to get from the top with a wrench.

Yanking the cowl makes it easier.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
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Bleh too much work, long extension and a 13mm swivel socket, out and done.
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 08:01 AM
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i was actually lucky enough to find my trans in a warehouse a few miles down the highway, only been sitting for a little less then a year i guess. then i just got my hands on a MK8 flywheel and kept the smaller TC. still running excellent as a daily driver, though i should have left the 1/2 spring in for the JMOD, if your a little too happy on the pedal she'll buck uncomfortably, and twist the rear a bit on the one-wheel-wonder axle. but i would have to agree finding a lower millage trans from our gen is near impossible unless its out of an old mans church going MK8 that got Tboned like mine

anything that old and used, or stored for long periods of time will be near dead, or all dried out and useless. don't get me wrong, i hope she lasts, longer then a year if your lucky, but i wouldn't recommend holding your breath, I'm still doing it with mine and don't forget the mercon5, should help out immensely... if it doesn't shock the seals and blow up immediately you'll probably be ok. and you may as well swap out the pump and tail shaft seals while you have it down( their only a few dollars). oh, and the 95 TCC solenoid so your ECM doesn't fry its brains.

and the Jmod is just a modification for better flow, pressure, and lubrication here and their, its actually already Jspec in later year transmissions, so i wouldn't worry about people telling you it will destroy anything... if all else fails leave the 1/2 spring in, loose the 2/3 and she'll feel pretty normal. but last a lot longer...

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nall_one View Post
i was actually lucky enough to find my trans in a warehouse a few miles down the highway, only been sitting for a little less then a year i guess. then i just got my hands on a MK8 flywheel and kept the smaller TC. still running excellent as a daily driver, though i should have left the 1/2 spring in for the JMOD, if your a little too happy on the pedal she'll buck uncomfortably, and twist the rear a bit on the one-wheel-wonder axle. but i would have to agree finding a lower millage trans from our gen is near impossible unless its out of an old mans church going MK8 that got Tboned like mine

anything that old and used, or stored for long periods of time will be near dead, or all dried out and useless. don't get me wrong, i hope she lasts, longer then a year if your lucky, but i wouldn't recommend holding your breath, I'm still doing it with mine and don't forget the mercon5, should help out immensely... if it doesn't shock the seals and blow up immediately you'll probably be ok. and you may as well swap out the pump and tail shaft seals while you have it down( their only a few dollars). oh, and the 95 TCC solenoid so your ECM doesn't fry its brains.

and the Jmod is just a modification for better flow, pressure, and lubrication here and their, its actually already Jspec in later year transmissions, so i wouldn't worry about people telling you it will destroy anything... if all else fails leave the 1/2 spring in, loose the 2/3 and she'll feel pretty normal. but last a lot longer...
Thanks, While I was working in a transmission shop for about 6 months if the tranny is near dead like that take it apart clean everything real good and put some life revitalizing Marvel Magic Mystery oil in it I didn't believe it till I watched. Believe me that stuff may be expensive to buy but it really works. She has only been sitting for a couple of months at the most and from what the fluid shows and smells everything will be okay. Just a little love and care and she'll be back on the road again. For sitting for a good 2-3 months the fluid is pink and does not smell burnt at all. When I get it home(Today around 3) I am going to drop the pan and replace the mlps, tcc, and switch to the mark 8 torque converter while also mounting the marks flex plate to my cougar.

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-13-2011, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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If I haven't mentioned before I LOVE my cougar and would NEVER get rid of it. I am also lucky enough to have enough knowledge to do the work that is necessary for my car to stay alive.

94' XR7
  • '08 TR-3650
  • '97 COBRA 4V 4.6
  • 3.27 TRAC-LOK
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