What happens when you do WOT 4th gear pulls - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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What happens when you do WOT 4th gear pulls

I'll just let this pic speak for itself. If you absolutely have to go fast, for the love of all that is holy, turn OD off. Or this will eventually be the result. That drum is supposed to be smooth on the outside where the band is applied. Someone thought the torque converter failed, it held up just fine despite the damage. The OD band got fried, however.


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Last edited by Mgino96tbird46; 11-26-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 03:55 PM
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I recognize that corner there Glad the chief found the problem . And he told me a long time ago OD off at the track. Forget to sometimes

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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 04:10 PM
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Whose OD Band and Reverse Drum is that?...

Can you say toast??






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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
Whose OD Band and Reverse Drum is that?...

Can you say toast??






Rayo...
All I'll say is it's not mine, thank goodness.

That band and drum got so hot that the metal on the outside of the band started to change color.

Michael M. ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist.

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Last edited by Mgino96tbird46; 11-26-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 06:48 PM
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The monkey it almost caused him not to be able to race, thank me and 2 others got it going

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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 06:57 PM
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Jeminy Christmas!

yeah, i even drop out of OD when i'm passing on the highway.... and i try to avoid using a lot of throttle out on the interstate...

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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 07:49 PM
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Here are my pictures.

The cause of my last minute transmission woes. Lesson learned; no more top gear pulls.

On *most cars you won't see this kind of damage with a top gear pull, but when you're making close to 400 rwhp and almost 400 ft lbs of torque bad things happen.

One heavily grooved and shredded drum ...



and one burnt up OD Band ...




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Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 07:55 PM
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Was that a kevlar band or an OE?

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post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:32 PM
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It was the Kevlar, I don't use oem bands in my build unless that's what the customer wants

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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertP View Post
The monkey it almost caused him not to be able to race, thank me and 2 others got it going
Did he lose 3rd & 4th gear when that happened?

I would assume just 4th unless the direct clutches got toasted too??



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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 11:03 AM
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The OD band only applies in manual 2 and OD, so I'd assume it would only have affected OD unless something else got cooked.

-Brandon
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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
Did he lose 3rd & 4th gear when that happened?

I would assume just 4th unless the direct clutches got toasted too??

Rayo..

The valve body filled with metal shavings and the car got stuck in 2nd. The valve body's not a total loss, disassembly and cleaning and it'll be good as new.

The only reason he didn't clean it and put it back in the car was that we were in a time crunch to get the car ready for racing on Sunday. So he grabbed a spare valve body he had in the shop and used it.

Other than that he replaced the reverse drum, OD band and cleaned and flushed the trans fluid. The trans got a thorough inspection before reassembly and everything else looked good as new. Obviously it worked and ran like a champ when nearly every single run I made was a new personal best over the old build.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 11:37 AM
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so, lets say you want to do 4th gear WOT runs?

get rid of the 4R70W?

what can be done for this not to happen?

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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 12:36 PM
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Keep your HP and torque numbers close to stock and make your 4th WOT runs without risking injury to the trans.

The OD band - even the Heavy duty Kevlar one - can't withstand that kind of abuse for long when you're making the kind of HP and torque numbers that Robert, myself and a few others are making.

I suppose you could switch to a manual trans...

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 11-27-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 04:32 PM
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Wait, is this from the WOT 3-4 shift or just doing WOT in 4th in general?

These shushboxes are such garbage.

-Matt
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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Wait, is this from the WOT 3-4 shift or just doing WOT in 4th in general?

These shushboxes are such garbage.
My guess would be a 3-4 shift at WOT. I know that's a lot of power, but I would think with increased pressure, that band would hold if power was applied after the band was fully engaged. Of course, with the TC unlocked and that torque multiplication going on....... YIKES! lol

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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:32 PM
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I thought the problem with a WOT 3-4 was the stub shaft breaking, not the band?

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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
I thought the problem with a WOT 3-4 was the stub shaft breaking, not the band?
I've read that those 300M stub shafts are virtually indestructible!

Here is a Lenteck 4R70W tranny for sale rated to handle 1000 flywheel horsepower with a 300m stub shaft:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/driv...stubshaft.html

Dirtydog (Alan) sells them GUARANTEED not to break: http://www.dirtydogperformance.com/t...ft/prod_8.html

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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:41 PM
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I always tell my wife that I don't care what she does in the Tbird as long as she turns OD off when going WOT.

Nice to have pictures to show.
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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
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I've read that those 300M stub shafts are virtually indestructible!

Here is a Lenteck 4R70W tranny for sale rated to handle 1000 flywheel horsepower with a 300m stub shaft:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/driv...stubshaft.html

Dirtydog (Alan) sells them GUARANTEED not to break: http://www.dirtydogperformance.com/t...ft/prod_8.html
I wouldn't sell anything with a guarantee to not break in a 4R70W, leastways would I buy it from Alan.

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post #21 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:04 PM
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The later stub shafts in general are supposed to be less snap prone due to the elimination of a groove. That brings the likelyhood of frying the band way up(moving the problem down the line)

-Matt
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post #22 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:10 PM
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The later stub shafts in general are supposed to be less snap prone due to the elimination of a groove. That brings the likelyhood of frying the band way up(moving the problem down the line)
Well, I wouldn't call that the "problem", just changing the weakest link. They eliminated the narrow part of the shaft, but those aftermarket are hardened aircraft steel and everything else!

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post #23 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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The way it was explained to me was that this was caused from WOT 4th gear pulls and probably WOT 3-4 shifts.

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post #24 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:16 PM
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The newer OE stub shafts can handle BIG power though, I wouldn't bother with the 300m unless I wanted piece of mind with a 1000whp build. In any case it's not going to fix the "problem" that is the 3-4 shift carnage on these transmissions.

-Matt
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post #25 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The newer OE stub shafts can handle BIG power though, I wouldn't bother with the 300m unless I wanted piece of mind with a 1000whp build. In any case it's not going to fix the "problem" that is the 3-4 shift carnage on these transmissions.
Well, transmissions get better and better. The truck we take around the country is a 2002 Cummins diesel with over 400,000 miles and we just had to have a band replaced that looked very similar to the one in the above photos!

I understand why they need the bands and if there is a better way, I'm sure we'll be seeing it soon!

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post #26 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 07:36 PM
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i did the WOT 3->4 one time with my old F5 trans that was slowly dying. never again.... the sliiiiiide into gear, and the OD light flashing made my heart stop

kept going for a while till the TC shrapnel'd out and i couldn't get it to stay running at stoplights or in any other gear but park, and neutral... neutral bombed my way home and parked her till my Mk8 F7 went in

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post #27 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:19 PM
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post #28 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 04:37 AM
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So what happens if you need 4th gear for the quarter mile? I haven't taken the new engine up to that kind of speed yet but I remember my running real high in the RPM's at the end of the quarter mile in 3rd gear with the old 2v. What if you run a 4.30 or a 4.56 gear and you need 4th gear? Manual is the only way to go?

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post #29 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:09 AM
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If you've got a 7000 RPM redline with 4.88s, your top speed can be as high as 120 MPH in 3rd gear with a 28" tire. If you've got a 4.56, that becomes 128 MPH. With 4.30s, that's 135 MPH, and 4.10s that's 142 MPH. With a 27" tire that's 115/123/130/137 MPH.

To cross the line at speeds like that you'll probably be running at least 11s...

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post #30 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:16 AM
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thats one reason why i always program the ecu to remove a bunch of timing at WOT in 4th gear only just to prevent this from happening
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