4r70 no 2-3 shift or od - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
4r70 no 2-3 shift or od

ok iv been searching and trying things and searching and fixing things still cant figour this out

99 f150
98 4r70 swap (truck had a c4 in it)
wiring came from a expedition and repined only a few wires for it to be like the stock harness
replaced shift solenoids
the tranny was "built" by somebody i traded the tranny for my c4 swap
has a PA auto auto transbreak vavle body

everything seems good
computer says o/d and D when its in drive with od switched on or off
its commanding the 3rd gear shift but nothing happens it just stays in 2nd gear

the wiring is correct for the solenoids i can jump them by powering them up at the plug on the firewall so i know the wiring is correct

i just cant see the tranny being broken if it stays in 2nd and does not shift at all it never neutrals out just stays in 2nd gear

i have loaded a stock tranny tune in the truck for now just to see if its gonna work,
my speedo seems to be maybe 10 mph slower than its actually going i know this will just make the shift point off a little.

anybody have any ideas ?? im pretty stumped at this point

NEW INFO
does not have a broken stub shaft tore the tranny down and its not broken,
direct drum clutches are a little worn down but should have worked, and the od band is a little worn down

so back to square one and i have no idea whats going on now
dabeetereater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 04:09 PM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,716
Send a message via Yahoo to 94 Thunderbird XX
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
its commanding the 3rd gear shift but nothing happens it just stays in 2nd gear
....i just cant see the tranny being broken if it stays in 2nd and does not shift at all it never neutrals out just stays in 2nd gear

The trans selects and holds 2nd if the pin wiring isn't correct. Depending on the year of the trans, there's two different pinout wiring specs. Are you absolutely sure it's wired up right?

Delete my account.
94 Thunderbird XX is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
its a 99 truck with a 98 tranny from a mustang, i checked and checked the wiring, i can actually accuate the solenoids from the plug on the firewall,
it shifts 1-2 just fine and just stays in 2nd gear after that, and it will downshift into 1st like its suposto
dabeetereater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 08:22 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Lightbulb

My idea is: - If indeed Electrical is good & Tranny is good then I say Main Valve Body is bad - Happened to me when I had a bad 2000 Main VB w/bad Main Valve.

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...

Last edited by BUCK; 03-18-2013 at 08:35 AM.
BUCK is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
Super Moderator
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 9,076
Garage
Do manual 1 and 2 work?

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci
theterminator93 is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
yeah manual 1-2 work fine, im building the tranny back up since couple clutches are kind of burned up gonna stack 8 in the direct drum and 7 in the foreward drum, need to make sure its not gonna happen again, this time im gonna take the valve body apart to see if anything is stuck
dabeetereater is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 10:15 AM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Lightbulb

Ran across a Thread that found loss of 3rd & OD due to incorrect assembly of 2-3 Accumulator Piston Asembly:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=123268

"" As with the issue I mentioned before the direct accumulator piston would drop out of the bore and exhaust the direct pressure. The result would be a loss or weak 3rd gear and virtually nonexistant 4th. For some reason when the piston has come out of the bore for me in the past I have had issues from complete loss of 3rd and 4h, loss of 4th only with 3rd weak and in one case it felt like lockup did not work but worked great elsewhere. That one was the puzzler we thought it was a converter issue. That is the point at which I went to using the plastic taller pistons.

The 02 transmission has 2 stiffener plates on the transmission, the earlier model unit in your car had 3. In turn the "bottlecap" on the 02 is taller if you do not use it the direct piston will out stroke the bore making it slip in 3rd and 4th.
Alan
__________________
DirtyDog Performance.Com""

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...

Last edited by BUCK; 03-20-2013 at 04:34 PM.
BUCK is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
yeah maybe i will have to try the taller piston when i put it back together, still would like to find something actually broken before i stick it back in for the 3rd time
dabeetereater is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 12:08 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
yeah maybe i will have to try the taller piston when i put it back together, still would like to find something actually broken before i stick it back in for the 3rd time
I don't know what a "PA auto auto transbreak vavle body" looks like - But there's a theory that IF it lacks the 3rd small "Pac Man" Plate like a 2000+ Main VB does it affects the stack height of how some of the 2-3 Accumulator Piston & Retainer heights work out in a no 2-3 Spring setup (preferred by virtually all the Gurus).

Sonnax says you can get VB cross leaks without the 3rd Pac man plate too.

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...
BUCK is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
well mine has a "fixed" 2-3 accumulator so it cant come down far eneough to come out of the bore its just not gonna happen, and i have dont know what the "pac man" late is,
loooks pretty much like this one

http://www.clickclickracing.com/foru...tic-Transbrake
dabeetereater is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 03:43 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Thumbs up

VERY COOL ~! ... the 3 Round "reinforcing plates" on the other side (top) of Main VB are called Pac Man Plates as they are round with little chunks out of them... as I said 2000+ Main VB have only 2 Plates - The smallest 3rd Plate is Under 2-3 Piston Retainer Pre-2000.

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...
BUCK is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
ohh ok got ya, yeah this is a 98 tranny so im just gonna go through it all and check over the vavle body really closely, dont know what else to do
dabeetereater is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 02:59 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
ohh ok got ya, yeah this is a 98 tranny so im just gonna go through it all and check over the vavle body really closely, dont know what else to do
& Certainly it's occurred to you if it does'nt work after next install I'd try a stockish Main VB before I pulled entire Tranny again - Quite obviously that's a very nice Main VB you have but kinda unique so...

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...
BUCK is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
yeah im gonna check it all out after i rebuild it, gonan cryotreat everything, and put it all back together hopefully in a few weeks ill have it back together
dabeetereater is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
ok so back to this again,

update,
pulled tranny apart, no broken stub shaft, infact it was still a stock one,
direct clutches were little burned up so rebuilt that one and stacked 7 in it
also stacked 6 in the foreward drum
replaced 2-3 accumulator and spring just for the hell of it
installed the retainer with pins facing down
pulled apart vavle body everything worked no broken springs nothing looks out of place
cleaned it all
checked wiring again for the 500th time all seems to be correct

still will not shift into 3rd gear, it just shifts 1-2 and stays in 2nd gear

im pretty much at my wits end with this **** im so sick and tired of pulling stuff apart somebody please help me
dabeetereater is offline  
post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2013, 03:50 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
ok so back to this again,

update,
pulled tranny apart, no broken stub shaft, infact it was still a stock one,
direct clutches were little burned up so rebuilt that one and stacked 7 in it
also stacked 6 in the foreward drum
replaced 2-3 accumulator and spring just for the hell of it
installed the retainer with pins facing down
pulled apart vavle body everything worked no broken springs nothing looks out of place
cleaned it all
checked wiring again for the 500th time all seems to be correct

still will not shift into 3rd gear, it just shifts 1-2 and stays in 2nd gear

im pretty much at my wits end with this **** im so sick and tired of pulling stuff apart somebody please help me
Have u already tried new shift solenoids? What about monitoring their signals to see if the are correct?

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2013, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
did you read the first post ?
dabeetereater is offline  
post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2013, 12:12 PM
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pittsburg, Tx
Posts: 44
PCM Reflash

You might try taking it to a shop or dealership to see if they can flash the PCM (powertrain control module, some call it transmission control module), or resetting it by disconnecting your battery for about 10 min ( think thats how you reset it ) A major tranny swap like that, your pcm wont know whats going on and it has to relearn "shift points" Hope this helps.
Unzem is offline  
post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-15-2013, 08:30 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
did you read the first post ?
Yes, but just because the ECM is commanding 3rd gear doesn't mean the signal is actually getting to the solenoids.

If I had this problem, I would hook a voltmeter to the Shift Solenoid 2 wire right where it goes into the tranny at the harness so I could see if the voltage is actually getting to the solenoid.

On a 1999 harness, that would be Pin #8.



Good luck and let us know...

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
yeah i have wired it like that and have checked that also its getting the signal to the shift solenoids,

i need to send the valve body back to pa i guess and have them look at it
dabeetereater is offline  
post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
finally fixed it, somebody took apart the valve body before i got it and lost 2 balls in the vavle body, i missed that the first time ohh well, now i got a fully built 4r70 now, just need to have it hit 3rd harder it does not shift into 3rd hard
dabeetereater is offline  
post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 10:13 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
finally fixed it, somebody took apart the valve body before i got it and lost 2 balls in the vavle body, i missed that the first time ohh well, now i got a fully built 4r70 now, just need to have it hit 3rd harder it does not shift into 3rd hard
Funny you brought that up. The first jmod I did hit 3rd a lot harder than 2nd and I made sure to do some things a little different the 2nd jmod I did to make that 1-2 shift as firm as the 2-3.

Glad you got the problem figured out!

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 12:41 PM
6th Gear Poster
 
BUCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SOUTH CAROLINA
Age: 65
Posts: 649
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
finally fixed it, somebody took apart the valve body before i got it and lost 2 balls in the vavle body, i missed that the first time ohh well
OOPS...

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...
BUCK is offline  
post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetKeym View Post
Funny you brought that up. The first jmod I did hit 3rd a lot harder than 2nd and I made sure to do some things a little different the 2nd jmod I did to make that 1-2 shift as firm as the 2-3.

Glad you got the problem figured out!
what did you do to make it hit 3rd hard ??
dabeetereater is offline  
post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 11:11 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeetereater View Post
what did you do to make it hit 3rd hard ??
Just drilled out the plate holes #4 & 5 to .100" (drill bit #39) and left the spring out of the 2-3 accumulator (no springs at all). My 1995 just has the holes drilled out to .081" and the 2-3 shift is super-firm (of course, that engine is basically stock).

~Rick

TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: ocala fl
Posts: 16
ok so back to this now it slips in 3rd, any ideas ??
dabeetereater is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome