Slipping 3rd and 4th... - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Slipping 3rd and 4th...

I've recently broken the tranny in my tbird; it's an 02 4r70w from a gran marquis, and has about 55k miles on it.

I jmodded it when I put it in, about 6 months ago.

At the point it failed, it upshifted to 4th, then immediately downshifted.

It was at light throttle settings when it upshifted; I was nearing the end of the run. (2 mile long airstrip...)

Fluid was warm, about 210 degrees.


I'm reasonable sure I toasted the direct clutch; I'm hoping to drop the pan this weekend and see how bad it is.

It will drive some in 3rd and 4th; but it slips. I have not driven it other than to confirm it, and datalog the problem.


I have some questions:

There's nothing dark in the fluid; if the pan isn't full of garbage, do I have to replace the new torque converter?

Has anyone used the Raybestos Blue race frictions in one of these yet? Or is that a poor choice?

Any suggestions from the tranny gurus?

Are there any failures that might not be the direct clutch that could cause this? I'm going to look at the 2-3 acc before I pull the whole tranny.

Was this caused by my tune? I've heard something about a 127mph downshift issue... but of course, I cant find the post.


Any useful suggestions are greatly appreciated.

EDIT: SOLVED!!!!

This was a dented separator plate, and required mod parts. See below.

If you catch it before it kills the direct clutch, all you have to do to fix it is drop the pan and valve body, and repair/upgrade it.

EDIT #2: Not solved after all.

See below...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 06-09-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Problem Not Solved.
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post #2 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6
I've recently broken the tranny in my tbird; it's an 02 4r70w from a gran marquis, and has about 55k miles on it.

I'm going to look at the 2-3 acc before I pull the whole tranny.
That would of been my first suggestion..Is to check the 2-3 accumulator, and make sure you're using the rubber bonded unit..

A bad 2-3 accumulator valve has been known to take out a direct clutch or 2..

If the accumulator checks out..I would make sure the valve body gets thoroughly cleaned..

Also check all the valves, and check balls to make sure everything moves freely in the valve body..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6
There's nothing dark in the fluid; if the pan isn't full of garbage, do I have to replace the new torque converter?
If you plan on rebuilding this transmission..

You might as well shoot Alan an email, and ask him what the cost is to give your new torque converter a thorough inspection..

Before you reinstall it in your freshly built transmission..


Hopefully one of our transmission gurus chimes in..

Good Luck!



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post #3 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
If the accumulator checks out..I would make sure the valve body gets thoroughly cleaned..
...

You might as well shoot Alan an email, and ask him what the cost is to give your new torque converter a thorough inspection..
...

Hopefully one of our transmission gurus chimes in..

Good Luck!

Rayo..

I plan to disassemble the transmission thoroughly to clean and rebuild it, unless I find a simple reason for it slipping, and no major damage. I've been extremely careful with it since the problem; the plates may not be too bad yet.

That outcome is highly unlikely to be the case, lol.

I fully expect to find a handful of garbage laying in the bottom of the pan, doing a full tranny rebuild, and having to ship the TC back to Alan to get it properly cleaned; But there always misguided hope, right?

Anyone know anything about the Raybestos Blue plates?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #4 of 76 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Anyone know anything about the Raybestos Blue plates?
AFAIK..The "Blue Plate Specials" are not recommended for daily drivers with low hp..


Again..I'm sure our resident tranny gurus will chime in, and correct me if I'm wrong..lol




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post #5 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Dropped the pan and valvebody over the weekend; the pan is full of black goo, and the magnet is covered.

http://forums.tccoa.com/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=408

But, there are no chunks of metal, or burnt smell.

The 2-3 accumulator was in it's bore, pushed to the very bottom. It may have been out of the inner bore; I'm going to try the Fairbanks 2-3 accumulator piston, and see if it helps.

Anyone see a problem in using cheap fluid to test operation with? I hate to use expensive fluid for a test; if it works, I'll drain it and replace it with mercon V...

Also adding an inline filter.

I'm sure I'll have to drop this tranny, but I wanted to try something else first, lol.

I don't think it can get broker...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #6 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 11:22 PM
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I don't see any reason to not use cheap fluid just to check operation.
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post #7 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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I bought the fairbanks kit with the 'special' 2-3 accumulator to see if it will make my direct clutch hook up.

The fairbanks kit looks good, and has some nice upgrades... IDK about removing checkballs; I need to read up on what that does, exactly.

If it works, I'll drain and reflush everything, and refill with Mercon V.

There's a lot of friction material in the pan, IDK if it will help of not; but it's a lot easier to drop the pan than the tranny.

I'm going to disassemble the valve body tonight, and clean it out.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #8 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 09:57 PM
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careful not to mess up the separator plate gaskets if you don't have extras lol
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post #9 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-12-2013, 11:17 PM
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Those really are 1 time use.

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post #10 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 08:48 AM
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Those really are 1 time use.
& dirt cheap~!

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post #11 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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I bought a set the first time I did a jmod; they're 3 to a bag. I still have 2 of each.

Why are they different, top and bottom? I'd think they would be the same...


Here's a link to the datalog I did to confirm the problem.



56k go home, lol.


GM, have I misdiagnosed this, and the real issue is staring me in the face? Or did I not datalog a crucial item?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 04-13-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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post #12 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting find; I know why it slips, I know why it went south all at once.



I don't know what caused the downshift, but dang, man...







Wow.

Any guesses how much pressure it takes to slam the accumulator that hard?

The point of the retainer went >1/8" deep, lol.

I'm going to assume the 2-3 piston came out of the bore; if so, do I even bother with putting a new separator plate and accumulator piston in it?

It likely has scrubbed most of the friction material off due to the leakage in the VB... Anyone know which passages those are?


On the good side, as I've never seen this breakage, not find pix of same on the intarweb; I hearby claim this as the Official Grog Mod.

.Fix, Break, Repeat...

I'm gonna go work on the PI swap car.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #13 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 02:10 PM
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Without the stiffener disc like the older 4r70ws, I wouldn't retain the stock plate, I would get one of the thicker ones. That shows something to the extreme but I think in normal use there is is enough deflection to cause crosstalk between passages.

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post #14 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangster View Post
Without the stiffener disc like the older 4r70ws, I wouldn't retain the stock plate, I would get one of the thicker ones. That shows something to the extreme but I think in normal use there is is enough deflection to cause crosstalk between passages.
+1. I agree; I'm going with both solutions.

This plate is "Deflected", lol. WTF caused the "blow out"?

I have to buy a plate, so the stiffener is a no-brainer. Sonnax has those fairly cheap.

If I can get all the crap flushed out of this tranny, it may still have some life left. Probably not. But worth ~$150 to try to fix.

At least it's not full of gritty black stuff...


Anyone have an idea why the piston would get slammed in the bore like that? Was it the 4-3-4 shift that happened?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 04-13-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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post #15 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 06:37 PM
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I'm no transmission expert, but my advice is:

Buy a Brand New seperator plate..
Buy a Brand New 2-3 Accumulator Piston (Bonded Rubber), and 2-3 Spring..
Buy a Brand New (2001-Up) 2-3 Accumulator Cover..

Check your valve body with a straight edge..So you know it's not warped..

Install your new seperator plate/gasket..Don't J-mod your new seperator plate..

Install your new 2-3 Accumulator Piston (Bonded Rubber), and 2-3 Spring..

If possible..Set the Transmission settings through your tune back to stock..

Then once you get everything back together..Cross your fingers, and hope you still have clutch material left on your Direct Clutch Frictions..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6
Anyone have an idea why the piston would get slammed in the bore like that? Was it the 4-3-4 shift that happened?
My guess is your line pressure was too high with the modifications you made to the seperator plate, and possibly the "Trans Tune"..



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post #16 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post

Buy a Brand New seperator plate..

Check your valve body with a straight edge..So you know it's not warped..

If possible..Set the Transmission settings through your tune back to stock..

Then once you get everything back together..Cross your fingers, and hope you still have clutch material left on your Direct Clutch Frictions..

My guess is your line pressure was too high with the modifications you made to the seperator plate, and possibly the "Trans Tune"..

Rayo..

I have the stock plate; I plan to mod it to the Fairbanks settings, which are slightly different than the jmod settings. There are other differences as well.

The valve body worries me; I'm going to check it tomorrow with the laser and see if there's a circle stamped in the aluminum. I know how to do that one...

If so, I'm pulling the tranny immediately; I'm not going to dink with partial fixes at that point. I have a working spare tranny.

I didn't expect to see a freaking "mushroom stamp" on my @#@ separator plate, lol.

If it bent the steel plate bolted to the aluminum into a fairly sharp line, what did it do to the aluminum underneath?

That's for tomorrow; I'll have to set it up pretty carefully to get a good pic.

Can you use a 96 valvebody in an 02 tranny? I've read yes, but there are limitations...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #17 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I didn't expect to see a freaking "mushroom stamp" on my @#@ separator plate, lol.

If it bent the steel plate bolted to the aluminum into a fairly sharp line, what did it do to the aluminum underneath?
If you think it might be helpful later, PATC has a thicker separator plate available. It's #8SP "Super Tough Plate"

Delete my account.
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post #18 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 Thunderbird XX View Post
If you think it might be helpful later, PATC has a thicker separator plate available. It's #8SP "Super Tough Plate"
Thanks!


Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #19 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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Grog6 - if you come down to pick it up in person, let me know - I'll take you to lunch!

(I live about 5 miles from their office, but am not affiliated with them in any way.)

RwP
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post #20 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Grog6 - if you come down to pick it up in person, let me know - I'll take you to lunch!

(I live about 5 miles from their office, but am not affiliated with them in any way.)

RwP
I'd love to; it's been years since I've had good food.

I won't be traveling, tho; too much to do, never enough time...

Ordered the parts today; thick plate and reinforcement plate. Hopefully here by the weekend.

Unless I wore off all the friction material, It should still work. (fingers crossed)

I think I'll get another 02 tranny and rebuild it as a 'full up' spare. Unless I end up pulling this one.

Man; we've pissed off all the tranny gurus here... Guess I'm going to have to learn a new field, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 04-15-2013 at 07:39 PM.
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post #21 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-15-2013, 10:15 PM
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I actually asked about this when I was building my transmission and the problem went dismissed.http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=137318. At what point does this happen?

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post #22 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-16-2013, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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From other thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
...stumbled across PACT after some in depth Sonnax reading and found what they call the "Armored Plate" they advertise it as a super tough plate and claim it's added thickness decreases cross leaks and cracks from the pounding from the 2-3 accumulator piston retainer.

...I see sonnax also has a plate cover install kit to help do the same thing, eliminate cracking and cross leaks, but I would think this would do the same thing or similar without having to drill and tap the valve body for the additional cover and hardware.
I knew I had seen this post; I've been looking.

Looking at the diagrams, the spring actually tends to keep this from happening with repeated 2-3 shifts. It softens the blow, which accounts for the broken springs seen from time to time.

No spring allows it to slam down hard, apparently, if it happens at high pressure.

The reinforcement plate is a great idea, in retrospect; as well as the thicker plate.

I hope to have the parts by Friday, and put it back together, and see if it works.

I was cleaning the plate off to put it back together last weekend when I found the 'divot'.

The transmission is pretty dirty from friction material; I'm going to flush it a few times with cheap fluid, using an inline filter, then refill it with good mercon V.

IF it works, that is.

A transmission is so much harder for me to pull, than to drop the VB...
.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #23 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-16-2013, 10:26 PM
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Drill & Tapping 2001+ Main VB & installing any old small Pac Man Plate you find is a piece of cake - I reccommend going 1/4-20 - Stronger Threads & easier tap - No need for thicker Sep Plate IMO as thin Plate worked for YEARS with the small Pac Man Plate.

& I have pix of Cross Leak in Gasket without small Pac Man Plate in my Gallery.

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...
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post #24 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-17-2013, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Neither one of the parts were very expensive; the ATSG books are tho.

I received my parts today; you Louisiana peeps are good!

I'm going to take the VB with me tomorrow, and set it up on the bridgeport at lunch; it shouldn't take too long to do.

I guess I'll need to drill this plate too, thinking about it; It looks like it's 12 or 14 gauge, lol.

It should survive by itself, without the pacman plate, but I got both here, and they're getting used.

Even if I have to yank the tranny later, at least I won't have to worry abut the vb as much.
.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #25 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-17-2013, 10:40 PM
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Should've told you PATC is good peeps.

OK, as a comparison the Tuff Plate is advertised as being .058" while the 94-95 plate I just mic'd is .039" Doesn't sound like a huge difference, but it can be seen by eye.

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post #26 of 76 (permalink) Old 04-18-2013, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I don't have my calipers right now, but I think this 02 plate is maybe .030, it looks smaller.

It looks about half as thick as the tuff plate.

I'll edit my post when I find them, lol.


EDIT:
Well, looking for better install instructions for the pac-man plate, I ran across this:

http://www.sonnax.com/publications/t...ly-on-the-wall

This is from 2010, so I don't get to call it a GrogMod, lol.

All newer valvebodies need the reinforcing plate, apparently. Another necessary part, removed for a few pennies.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 04-19-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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post #27 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 07:19 PM
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Update?

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post #28 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-02-2013, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Rain, lol.

All the parts are laid out, ready to go in, but I need two dry days before I can get them in, and we've had over 1" of rain the last two weekends. And both days this weekend.

I took this apart thinking it was going back together, and then seeing the dented plate delayed things a bunch.

I was able to install the sonnax reinforcement plate without major problems; but you really want to be careful, and use a drill press to make sure the hole is vertical thru the plate before you tap it.

Make sure you use the right tap; IIRC it's a fine thread, and not the one I had a dozen of.

The "SuperPlate" Referred to above is already J-modded to the newest specs; I have an 02 tranny, so the other ones may be different.

The Fairbanks kit has other mods; pressure springs, pistons, etc. I put everything in, at "performance street" category.

There is a step to drill a hole thru an aluminum wall in the VB; I'm mixed on applying that one... Comments?

BTW: the only difference I can find in this tranny build/tuning/etc vs the other two I have running, is the Jmod plate, and the springs.

I ain't blaming, just saying. I broke this myself, and ain't even going to try to shift blame.

The Jmod plate I bought, and I removed and added the springs as the mod. The plate was to spec; I measured it before I put it in.

The Non-jmodded 02 GMarquis tranny in Lazarus still shifts like a ..... after several years, and almost 100k miles.

I'm thinking one of the passages may be a bit too big, with the late j-mod instructions. Which one governs the "Accumulator-Plate Slam Coefficient"?

Stupid question, but anyone here able to run this by the J-man to ask his opinion? I've looked around; he hasn't said anything I can find, nor really has anyone else. They may consider that info proprietary, IDK.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote

Last edited by Grog6; 05-02-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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post #29 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I'm thinking one of the passages may be a bit too big, with the late j-mod instructions. Which one governs the "Accumulator-Plate Slam Coefficient"?
Plate holes labelled as per Jerry's tech article: #4, #5, and #6 regulates the direct clutch. 4 and 5 are feeds, and 6 is the exhaust.

Delete my account.

Last edited by 94 Thunderbird XX; 05-03-2013 at 06:46 PM.
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post #30 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Looking at the transmission diagrams in the book, it looks like the high-rpm 4-3 downshift turned on the forward clutch at high pressure.

I didn't intend to downshift; I let off, and it hit third at some (still high) rpm.

My tune has it down shift at 40mph.

This is not a normal mode of operation, apparently.

While I was typing this, I remember the speedo sensor needs the purple gear installed, that's in the console, lol. It's off by ~5 mph at 40, and ~15 mph at 70.

Hmmm. That could have been the deal there, thinking about it.

So I hear we're getting soaked again tomorrow, but it may not start till later in the day.

If it's clear at daylight, my butt is out there putting this in; I miss my comfy Toiko blues in the tbird over the solid as a rock konis in Lazarus lately.

Don't get me wrong, Lazarus rocks; but he's so hard to drive.
.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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