J-Mod separator plate issue - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 04:56 AM Thread Starter
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Arrow J-Mod separator plate issue

Hello all - I am J-Modding a 4R70W before installing in a custom project and have hit a speed bump. The trans I bought is a rebuilt Frankenstein, though I am only concerned with the valve body and separator plate for the J-Mods at this point.

I posted a pic below to show the oddity in this RF-F6 main control's separator plate: the lack of a #5 hole, and a large slot for #11. The plate does not appear to be modified. I have not seen any online photos of a plate with this configuration.

My question is if this plate can use the J-Mod hole in #5 (and all the others) but leave #11 alone?

I understand how the transmission works, but I have no experience in how the flow restrictions actually affect timing in this design. I'm concerned they might create weird issues with shift overlap or flare. I have searched for hours with no answers. Thanks for any help!

David

Background trans info:
Build Tag: None (missing - unknown original app)
Case: RF-F7SP-7006-AA (V6/small block pattern)
Main control (VB): RF-F6AP-7A092
1-2 Accumulator: F2AP (aluminum - will upgrade)
1-2 Top/bottom springs: plain/dark (will remove bottom)
2-3 Accumulator: F2VP (aluminum - will upgrade)
2-3 Bottom spring: Plain/dark (will remove. Place in 1-2 bottom?)
OD Servo: National 5286 (appears to be 2.7")
EPC solenoid: F6 (4.6 ohms)
Shift solenoids: F6 (24.5 ohms each)
TCC solenoid: F5 (13.5 ohms)
Pump: F5AP
Output shaft housing: F2TP (short AOD, right? Will use AOD/C4/T5 yoke)
Pan: '96-'97 ("reusable gasket", with sump, without drain)
Overall condition: Very good. Appears rebuilt with TransTec VB gaskets. Little pan residue, nothing on magnet, nothing in filter. New (?) valve body with zero wear or scuffing on shift/pressure valves. No aftermarket valves. Output shaft ratchets when turned in 'reverse' = mechanical diode?


Plate removed from RF-F6 valve body:
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 05:48 AM
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These are the settings I drilled my 94's separator plate to for mild but improved shifts. It looks like you have at least a 96+ separator plate and valve body.

Hole 1: .160" #20
Hole 2: N/C (or .081, #46) Intermidiate Clutch Feed (1-2 shift speed)
Hole 3: .180" #15 (2-1 shift clutch Exhaust)
Hole 4: .081 #46 Direct clutch feed (2-3 shift speed)
Hole 5: .081 #46 Direct clutch feed (2-3 shift speed)
Hole 6: .125" 1/8 Direct clutch exhaust
Hole 7: .125" 1/8 Reverse Servo (Manual 2-1 shift speed)
Hole 8: .238" "B" Forward clutch exhaust (3-4 sag)
Hole 9: .081" #46 Power-on forward clutch feed (3-4 shift) *** ADD HOLE ***
Hole 10: .076" # (or 0.81 #46) Reverse engagement
Hole 11: .081" #46 Power-off forward clutch feed (3-4 shift)

-Brandon
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 08:11 AM
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Yeah, that is odd, I haven't even seen an aftermarket replacement plate that looks like that. I thought that newer ones got a slot in places that the older ones had a hole, but with the 3 reinforcement plates that is a pre 2001.

--
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97 Cougar 4.6 Sport/White Opalescent Tricoat Metallic /Gray leather down but not out?
89 Cougar LS 3.8/Oxford White/Gray velour/HG need replaced AGAIN
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 10:36 AM
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So I was able to find a couple of pictures of plates like that. Also the gasket for hole 11 (where you have the slot) is also a slot.

#5 is for the 3-2 downshift, right?

--
97 Mark VIII LSC/Silver/Gray leather
97 Cougar 4.6 Sport/White Opalescent Tricoat Metallic /Gray leather down but not out?
89 Cougar LS 3.8/Oxford White/Gray velour/HG need replaced AGAIN
00 Grand Marquis LS/Vibrant White/Gray velour
63 Falcon 302/black and rust/shed isn't moving
82 F-150/Oxford White/dumb VV carb doesn't pass emissions
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 12:47 PM
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Yes the Gospel according to Jerry calls Hole #5 Direct Clutch Feed associated with 2-3 / 3-2 Shifts & CAUTIONS that if u don;t have the Higher Load 2-3 Capacity Modulator Spring do NOT make hole bigger than .081 ~! - It goes on to say you need a 98+ Main VB - I think Seperator Plate at top this post is off 97 or OLDER being you have the OLD #8 Hole per Jerry.

My 2 cents worth :

I drilled Hole #5 in my 96 Seperator Plate w/.78 Drill Bit to achieve NO LARGER than .081 Hole for lowest HP settings.

On 96 or newer Sep Plate Jerry says "you only need to open a hole" - So on my 96 Plate I opened #9 & # 11 w/.078 drill Bit to achieve no larger than .081 hole - Again you have 97 or OLDER Plate per Jerry being you have Old #8 Hole location.

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...

Last edited by BUCK; 04-08-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Cool, I appreciate the input and effort. I suppose I can do all the J-Mod holes, and if I have a 4-3 issue from #11 being so large, I can always size it down. I'll go for a minimum hole for #5 as well. I am mostly concerned for the #11 causing a bind-up between the OD band and the forward clutch. It will be difficult to test without both fairly high road speed and load on the shaft. It could get dicey, for both me and the shaft.

It wouldn't be such an issue, but I am doing a custom controller for this trans as well (not EEC/PCM), and I will be in uncharted territory for making it work. Between a new engine, custom un-tuned EFI, custom un-tuned trans controller and all in a different vehicle - I will have my hands full for a while. Woohoo! Nothing like a good challenge!

I am also considering leaving the trans all stock for the first shakedown drives, keeping the turbo wastegate forced open for no boost, and just get things a bit sorted first, then do the J-Mods after it's all working fairly happy together and before adding any real power.

Two more questions --

Any chance this is one of the dreaded "truck" valve bodies?

Does anyone have the factory spec's for the EPC solenoid and TCC solenoid frequencies and duty cycles?

Thanks again for the input!

David
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 02:32 PM
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Question

Double check my Previous Post as I did Edits.

AS Yeah I see your concern now as you have HUGE Slot in place vice #9 & #11 holes ~!

Guru will have to answer Truck VB question & that AINT me but maybe that's the answer here that explains Slot in place vice #9 & # 11 holes.

I agree the Slot in your Plate that's where the #9 & #11 holes would be looks stock - 96-2000 & 2001+ Sep Plate Gaskets have that Slot of course so I'd think some Plate of some type had a Slot there... & likely your Plate is it right_____?

Jerry does say of course that "only the #11 hole when Power Off (coasting) or doing an engagement"... so_____?

GET OFF MY LAWN~! ... & Let's not forget guys... There's still a dead Imaginary Ex-Girlfriend out there...

Last edited by BUCK; 04-09-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-20-2013, 03:23 PM
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anybody figure this out?

I ran into the same problem, Rebuilding a truck transmission from a 98 Expedition. Stock plate that was on the valve body has a slot for hole #11. Hole #5 is missing. Hole #8 is present and appears to have been drilled larger. Hole #6 is a slot.

I Circled a few other differences I see between the plates. Makes me wonder if this isn't an older plate from a 92-95 transmission, or if there is a unique plate that was used for Trucks?

Plate on the Left was in the Transmission...

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

Last edited by 88grandmarq; 07-21-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-20-2013, 03:53 PM
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btw.. ID tag on this transmission is F85P-7000-EA



I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 04:15 PM
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Judging by the lack of responses... I am guessing NO

I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 05:39 PM
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Must be a truck thing and why many people say you can't simply perform a JMod on a truck VB/plate.

I assume the gaskets include whatever is larger or appears in one or the other plates, the gaskets I used had a slot for 11 but my 97 Cougar and 97 Mark VIII had a hole there.

--
97 Mark VIII LSC/Silver/Gray leather
97 Cougar 4.6 Sport/White Opalescent Tricoat Metallic /Gray leather down but not out?
89 Cougar LS 3.8/Oxford White/Gray velour/HG need replaced AGAIN
00 Grand Marquis LS/Vibrant White/Gray velour
63 Falcon 302/black and rust/shed isn't moving
82 F-150/Oxford White/dumb VV carb doesn't pass emissions
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 07:24 PM
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That ID plate pictured comes from a 1998 Expedition 4.6L RWD according to rockauto...
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carc..._Assembly.html


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