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post #1 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Need faster 1-2 shifts

I run the bottle and need the 1-2 shift sooner and faster. I have to lift on the 1-2 shift because it hits the higher 7000 rev limit(chip) I already jmoded it. I will be going back in and opening up the 1-2 shift hole and taking the springs out of the 1-2 accum . Any other mechanical things I can do to make it what I need. Computer stuff is out. ($$) BTW the car 60fts 1.58 now.
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post #2 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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Removing the accumulator spring will make it shift harder, but not faster. I would drill the hole to the maximum setting in the J-mod, but I wouldn't go beyond that. If that doesn't work, you are pretty much left with a computer tune, or put a shallower rear gear in the car.

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post #3 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 09:22 PM
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After you finish fixing the transmission up which by the way is going to need a ton of work if it is stock to handle what you are doing, you need a tune to adjust the shift points and tweak the shift feel . You can not make a electronically controlled transmission shift sooner mechanically unless you go to a manual valvebody. Nitrous on a transmission without at least a spiral retainer is just asking for an immediate failure.

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post #4 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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After you finish fixing the transmission up which by the way is going to need a ton of work if it is stock to handle what you are doing, you need a tune to adjust the shift points and tweak the shift feel . You can not make a electronically controlled transmission shift sooner mechanically unless you go to a manual valvebody. Nitrous on a transmission without at least a spiral retainer is just asking for an immediate failure.

Alan
So opening up the hole will do nothing? I really don't want to go MVB on this. I have been looking into a Baurman? full computer control pack. I would not really say immediate failure because I have been racing it for awhile now. There is another kid at track running bottle too for years with no problems in a Gen1.
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post #5 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:02 PM
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Opening up the hole will make the clutch fill a few milliseconds faster, it will not make it shift earlier. Once you get the shift hitting as it should immediate failure from the snap ring popping off is almost guaranteed however it is possible someone already put the snap ring on it. I hear these things often how everybody has the car that is the exception to the rule, but it wouldn't be a rule if it weren't extremely common, just something to consider. Unless your transmission has been altered in the aftermarket it is no better than any other mn-12 transmission and the same problems that plague everyone else will plague you sooner or later. It would be much cheaper to tune the car than set up a bauman on it, but if your transmission fails from what you are doing to it what difference does any of it make, it sounds to me like you need a late transmission and a tune.
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Last edited by dirtyd0g; 08-29-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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post #6 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Opening up the hole will much the clutch fill a few milliseconds faster, it will not make it shift earlier. Once you get the shift hitting as it should immediate failure from the snap ring popping off is almost guaranteed however it is possible someone already put the snap ring on it. I hear these things often how everybody has the car that is the exception to the rule, but it wouldn't be a rule if it weren't extremely common, just something to consider. Unless your transmission has been altered in the aftermarket it is no better than any other MN-12 transmission and the same problems that plague everyone else will plague you sooner or later. It would be much cheaper to tune the car than set up a bauman on it, but if your transmission fails from what you are doing to it what difference does any of it make, it sounds to me like you need a late transmission and a tune.
Alan
I know I'm on borrowed time lol. I have a spare 95 and 97 trans but will most likely pick up a 98 they are cheap and plentiful. Will the tuner be able to get the shift points correct 1st time? That one thing I'm not into.(computer tuning) I have always worked around "tune" as in paying for someone to do it.

BTW thanks for input.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 10-10-2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Merge posts
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post #7 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:28 PM
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No matter what transmission you use you need at the very least a spiral retainer installed on the intermediate one way, I highly suggest a diode setup and some other improvements to the transmission. A 02+ transmission is my suggestion but you will need to part out your original transmission and have someone assemble it as a working combination. Avoiding the tune is not the answer here, you can set up a quarterhorse and do it yourself for considerably less money than the transmission controller alone will cost.
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post #8 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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No matter what transmission you use you need at the very least a spiral retainer installed on the intermediate one way, I highly suggest a diode setup and some other improvements to the transmission. A 02+ transmission is my suggestion but you will need to part out your original transmission and have someone assemble it as a working combination. Avoiding the tune is not the answer here, you can set up a quarterhorse and do it yourself for considerably less money than the transmission controller alone will cost.
Alan
98 comes with diode correct? I can and do all my work myself. So the 02+ has the spiral retainer?

Last edited by Right on the Mark; 08-18-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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post #9 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 11:36 PM
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no but 02 has better parts, diodes can be found as early as 97 but 98+ assures it.
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post #10 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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no but 02 has better parts, diodes can be found as early as 97 but 98+ assures it.
Alan
My spare mk8 1997 trans does not have diode I did the click test and no go. Bummer.Is there any way to see this retainer and what's involved in putting it in. (cost? , ford part?, where to get part?) I will check out the Jerry page.
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post #11 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 12:29 AM
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Just read the articles, if you are going to make a late transmission work you need to take the entire trans apart to do it right.
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post #12 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Just read the articles, if you are going to make a late transmission work you need to take the entire trans apart to do it right.
Alan
I have read it hundred times. That's where I got this. I cannot copy and paste from the 101 thread but on page 13 it states to enlarge hole to lower fill time by 50% will lower shift point.

To put late model trans all I have to do is swap solenoids.
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post #13 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 09:47 AM
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Swapping the lockup solenoid will fix the tcc issue, if you want to run 3.73 or 3.55 gears you need the 7 tooth output shaft if you are running stock gears you can change the speedometer gear but then whats the point. Beware the best transmissions don't have speedometer gear teeth at all. There are dozens of ways to rig it to work, only one way to do it right.
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post #14 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Swapping the lockup solenoid will fix the tcc issue, if you want to run 3.73 or 3.55 gears you need the 7 tooth output shaft if you are running stock gears you can change the speedometer gear but then whats the point. Beware the best transmissions don't have speedometer gear teeth at all. There are dozens of ways to rig it to work, only one way to do it right.
Alan
I run 4.10 on bottle and 4.56's N/A. I have the Dallas speedo box already. One reason I want 98 trans only is the output teeth. I do not want 0 speedo teeth trans more money to make work.
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post #15 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 01:07 PM
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Late transmissions have harder gearsets, better sun shell and sun gear, hardened teeth on the reverse drum, in some cases a better diode and always a better valvebody. 98 transmissions are rare to find in really good condition anymore.

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post #16 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Late transmissions have harder gearsets, better sun shell and sun gear, hardened teeth on the reverse drum, in some cases a better diode and always a better valvebody. 98 transmissions are rare to find in really good condition anymore.

Alan
When you say late, what years are those? I have 36K 1998 trans on the line for $250 how can you beat that? In long run I might go with 02+ and a MVB to end all the BS.
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post #17 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:13 PM
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I love guys that complain about their shift points and pull 1.5x sixty foot.

You can't get there from here as they say. If you want to control the shift points of an electronic transmission, you have 2 choices. Use a tuner or a manual valve body.

FWIW, i've found the 1-2 shift point in my car commanded at 6300 nets the best ET.
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post #18 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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I love guys that complain about their shift points and pull 1.5x sixty foot.

You can't get there from here as they say. If you want to control the shift points of an electronic transmission, you have 2 choices. Use a tuner or a manual valve body.

FWIW, i've found the 1-2 shift point in my car commanded at 6300 nets the best ET.
It doesn't shift in the first 60 feet LOL (thank god) What "tuner" are you using again? Sniper "pro"? Do you know anyone running the quarterhorse(motes)? Thanks for info.
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post #19 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:00 PM
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There are untold numbers of people running quarterhorse and tweecer in the aode and 4r70w trans.

The control you have over the ecu is all but total. Can make an ecu from a bird run an old 300 straight 6 if you wanted to.

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post #20 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:24 PM
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post #21 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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It doesn't shift in the first 60 feet LOL (thank god) What "tuner" are you using again? Sniper "pro"? Do you know anyone running the quarterhorse(motes)? Thanks for info.
I know it doesn't shift in the first 60 feet.

I run the SCT Pro Racer Package. I do know several people running quarterhorse but they are all SuperCoupes. I tried to get a quarterhorse but at the time there were no strategy codes available for my PCM.

I'm by no means a tuning expert but I have used the software to tweak the A/F and to optimize the shift schedule.
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post #22 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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I know it doesn't shift in the first 60 feet.

I run the SCT Pro Racer Package. I do know several people running quarterhorse but they are all SuperCoupes. I tried to get a quarterhorse but at the time there were no strategy codes available for my PCM.

I'm by no means a tuning expert but I have used the software to tweak the A/F and to optimize the shift schedule.
I have a 1993 too as you know, so if you could not strategy code I don't think I will be able to.
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post #23 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 07:32 PM
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When I did my jmod, the shift points did lower.

I grenaded my roller clutch, and now put a 1997 tranny in my 1995 Bird (stock ECM) and it hits the rev limiter before the shift if you floor it.

I'm gonna try the jmod on this "new" tranny to see if it fixes my issue.

BTW, welcome Right on the Mark to TCCoA!

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post #24 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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When I did my jmod, the shift points did lower.

I grenaded my roller clutch, and now put a 1997 tranny in my 1995 Bird (stock ECM) and it hits the rev limiter before the shift if you floor it.

I'm gonna try the jmod on this "new" tranny to see if it fixes my issue.

BTW, welcome Right on the Mark to TCCoA!
Thanks Rick. I been here forever but lurk mostly, hang on LVC mostly since I have mk8. I know the expert tranny guys hang more here. My car would not hit revlimit from a dig but if went from roll it would hit 1-2 rev limit.
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post #25 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 09:57 PM
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The faster fill time will make a minor decrease in shift point, very minor. It's more likely that your roller clutch isn't locking in time or you need to be tuned for your gears. Not tuning a car for gear ratio will destroy a good transmission from improper shift timing and on occasion cause skipped gears which is death to these transmissions. Avoiding the tune will not benefit you, you could set it up with a quarterhorse for around $350, not including the base file you need to have someone with experience write.
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post #26 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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The faster fill time will make a minor decrease in shift point, very minor. It's more likely that your roller clutch isn't locking in time or you need to be tuned for your gears. Not tuning a car for gear ratio will destroy a good transmission from improper shift timing and on occasion cause skipped gears which is death to these transmissions. Avoiding the tune will not benefit you, you could set it up with a quarterhorse for around $350, not including the base file you need to have someone with experience write.
Alan
I will do whats necessary. I was looking at QH but I have found NO ONE in a 1993-1995 Mark 8 using it. Do you know any mk8's using it? I will contact QH tomorrow. I have "tunes" already a Diablo and a Superchip lol but need full control now. Thanks for input.
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post #27 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 08:04 AM
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There is a gentleman by the name of sailorbob on eectuning.org. He writes ALOT of very well defined strategy files. I would pm him and ask him about your strategy.

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post #28 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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There is a gentleman by the name of sailorbob on eectuning.org. He writes ALOT of very well defined strategy files. I would pm him and ask him about your strategy.
I did research and his name came up. Thanks will do. Got ahold of Sailorbob and are emailing.

Thinking of just going FMVB instead of all this Computer stuff.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 10-10-2013 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Merge posts
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post #29 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 04:18 PM
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Exactly why do you refuse to embrace the current technology anyway? Or at least technology from 2 decades ago as the case may be.
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post #30 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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I'm a carb guy.
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