4R70W pump issue? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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4R70W pump issue?

When I started up the car for the first time in since the engine was swapped there was no noise or issues. But, now having the transmission back out to replace the rear main (thanks felpro) there is a popping noise. Its random, sounds almost like a back fire, but the OD light flashes.

I dont know what could have changed by pulling the trans to replace a main seal but something did. The transmission has a Jmod (drilled plate AND removed springs) and an FTI 2800 stall converter. The converter was pulled out to handle the transmission easier but nothing looked bad, and it was installed the proper way (turn while applying pressure, wait for three clicks to know its engaged in the pump and the splines) both times and nothing was different on the second. Its properly spaced just like before.

I did some research and the thing that keeps popping up is the pump, like the tabs are broken or something. Im hoping someone who has more experience with these transmissions can say otherwise. I cant check the code because if its something with the TC I dont want it destroying the trans just so I can check the code, and it doesnt stay after I shut the car down.

INFO THAT MAY BE NEEDED

The trans is full, put 13.5 quarts of Mercon 5 into it and it read Cold Fill at idle
The trans will suck fluid out of the pan, the level of the fluid drops when the car is started
There are no leaks and the cooler lines and cooler are clear.
The trans was healthy to begin with, no metal in fluid and smelled fine.
If you guys need anything else let me know, obviously. Im really pissed about this so hopefully I can get some hopeful news.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 03:49 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Check the wiring and connectors carefully; only major stuff sets a code, and you would be feeling most of that more than a 'backfire'.

An intermittent solenoid could do it, and the computer would bitch pretty quickly.

Does it do it with the od button/light on, or OD disengaged?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Check the wiring and connectors carefully; only major stuff sets a code, and you would be feeling most of that more than a 'backfire'.

An intermittent solenoid could do it, and the computer would bitch pretty quickly.

Does it do it with the od button/light on, or OD disengaged?
They all seem tight and all are connected. Ill clean them thoroughly tomorrow, connector spray did nothing. I didnt even have time to press the OD button so It was on. This was all at idle, I didnt even pull the car from the garage.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 05:10 PM
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I would check the harness to make sure it didn't get crushed anywhere as well, it seems unlikely that an installation mistake would set off the light before the car even moves. I know you don't want to run it but I need to hear the popping backfire like noise to get any idea what it is, I've heard a lot of transmission noises but that's not one I'm familiar with, it could be coincidental unless you physically isolated the source.

-Matt
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 06:11 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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These are the codes an EEC-V can throw, due to a transmission problem:

P0703 Brake On/Off Switch Input fault
P0704 Clutch Pedal Position Switch Input circuit fault
P0705 Transmission Range Sensor out of Self-Test Range or Shorted to Ground
P0707 Transmission Range Sensor circuit Low Input
P0708 Transmission Range Sensor circuit High Input
P0712 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor circuit Input Low
P0713 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor circuit Input High
P0715 Turbine Shaft Speed Sensor circuit fault
P0720 Output Shaft Speed Sensor circuit
P0721 Output Shaft Speed Sensor circuit

P0731 Improper Ratio for First Gear
P0732 Improper Ratio for Second Gear
P0733 Improper Ratio for Third Gear
P0734 Improper Ratio for Fourth Gear
P0735 Transmission problems
P0736 Improper Ratio for Reverse Gear
P0741 TCC System Improper Mechanical Performance
P0743 Torque Converter Clutch System Electrical failure
P0746 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid Performance
P0750 Shift Solenoid No. 1 circuit
P0751 Shift Solenoid No. 1 Performance
P0755 Shift Solenoid No. 2 circuit
P0756 Shift Solenoid No. 2 Performance
P0760 Shift Solenoid No. 3 circuit
P0761 Shift Solenoid No. 3 Performance
P0765 Transmission system problems

P0781 1 to 2 Shift Error
P0782 2 to 3 Shift Error
P0783 3 to 4 Shift Error
P0784 4 to 5 Shift Error

The ones in red are the ones that are possible without moving.

The big one I see is the MLPS; see if that POS is plugged in good.

I forget; will an Xcal2 read tranny codes?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Well I guess Im gonna have to run it. Ill do it tomorrow after I clean the connectors more. Ill also get a video of it running so you guys can get a sense for the sound.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 07:36 PM
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Even if the OD light doesn't flash when the key is on, it should store the code in memory, so you should be able to read it just with the key on.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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The noise

Well heres what it sounds like. The car is at about 1100 rpms so the cams dont hide it. After cleaning all the connectors fully the OD light stopped flashing. It has an EVAP Switch Low code now which is new. If its just the exhaust then I guess everything is fine but I have heard the car back fire before and it doesnt sound as metallicy (for lack of a better phrase) as this noise does. Almost like if you flick an empty soda can but much louder. Maybe Im just overreacting since I had the trans back out but I havent heard this before.



First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 12:30 PM
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That's not an exhaust noise, something is hitting somewhere. Either your flex plate bolts are loose, or your torque converter nuts are loose, or something got messed up in the engine.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 12:52 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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The only things running that slow are accessories on the front; hard engine parts bad should be hammering.

Cam chains are RPM/4; that sounds like rpm/10 or better.

See if the belt tensioner is moving in time with the noise.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 01:10 PM
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I don't think it's internal to either engine or transmission after hearing this, it's far too irregular and hollow sounding. It sounds like something is loose and knocking into something else.

-Matt
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Ill get some proper ear muffs and Ill get underneath car with it running to see if I can feel it hitting somewhere. The sound muffles down when I walk towards the front of the car so I doubt its the engine but Ill check if something feels like its hitting the pan or the block. I torqued down the flexplate to 33lb ft (LMR has torque specs on their site for the 4.6 so thats what I used) and the TC nuts are also 33lb ft. The bell housing was difficult as you can imagine to torque but that was put at 115lb ft.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 04:17 PM
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That's not a cyclic sound, I don't think it has anything to do with a problem that is related to the speed of the engine/trans, I think it's something loose or improperly installed. You sure you didn't forget to torque something down? Also the little inspection cover on the bottom of the trans bellhousing are you sure you didn't leave it inside the bell housing where it might be hitting the TC lmao.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikutoisahobo View Post
That's not a cyclic sound, I don't think it has anything to do with a problem that is related to the speed of the engine/trans, I think it's something loose or improperly installed. You sure you didn't forget to torque something down? Also the little inspection cover on the bottom of the trans bellhousing are you sure you didn't leave it inside the bell housing where it might be hitting the TC lmao.
The inspection plate is sitting on a self, its not even installed. There is nothing in the trans and I didnt forget to torque anything.

First: Stacie, 1996 Tbird LX, mild build NPI engine, PI cams and intake, Long tube headers, Jmod.

Second: Ellie, 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end

Third: 1997 Dodge Ram 1500, thirsty daily.

Fourth: 1990 Tbird SC, GT40 5.0 mated to m5r2, BBK long tubes, motor out the hood, drift car.
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