Slipping out of 1st gear on right turns - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Slipping out of 1st gear on right turns

Hey gang, ive been a member for 5 years now and this is my first post haha😅

Car is a 97 Cougar sport package with the 4.6..
Recently had the PI swap amd a few other things done and the engine sings, but shes slipping on about 50% of right turns.. Pretty sure its only from 1-2, the car kicks out of 1st and doesnt grab 2nd right away.

Could the pump be starving? Trans was flushed so there is plenty of juice in there.
Could it be a vehicle/engine speed sensor?

Absolutely no slipping before the PI swap was done so my guess is a sensor..

Any ideas guys?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 01:02 PM
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Hello there, fellow Ohioan! Welcome to the boards (officially) from the Cleveland area.

First things first... how's the fluid? Color, level, smell? Problems with any of the other gears under normal driving conditions?

-Brandon
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 01:54 PM
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Sounds like fluid starvation. I had it happen to me once on a right turn, up a hill, and that was in my old '95 that has the smaller pan. It just popped out of 1st for a second.

Rob told me that was common with the smaller pan, and that it only happened on right turns.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Had the transmission fluid changed at valvoline, last time was in 2013.. The pump is original, Ive probably put some strain on it since lol would the sensors have anything to do with the right turns, my guess was the limited slip diff had more resistance on right turns causing a speed sensor to think it needs to shift? IDK

Also havent had a tune since the PI swap.
To be honest id like to change the pump/gaskets, do the JMod and then a good tune..

Doesnt slip from a straight dig (;
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Fluid was changed 2 days ago, post PI swap, it was still slipping on the right turns..

But never slipped before any of it lol
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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The more I think about it, the more I just want to save up for a t45 swap LOL
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 04:58 PM
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Make sure the fluid level is correct; your car has the "Deep Pan" so it Should Not do that.

Realize, when it slips, that's really bad, so don't do that if you can help it till you get this fixed.

My bet is that if the fluid level is right, the wrong filter was used; the 97 has the dimple in the pan, and the filter inlet sits in it, unlike the older filter.

You should do the Jmod asap. and make sure they used Mercon V. You can buy a plate, if drilling is beyond you. Darrin at BC automotive, sells those.

The good news is that a later transmission is easier to use in a 96-97 car.

I've never had one slip 1st; I break 3rd, most of the time.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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At this point, its worth it to save towards a new transmission. A rebuilt 4r70w would be cheaper in the end and less complicated.. A few other things like suspension bushings and paint need attention soon, kinda forcing me down this route.

I'll look at the filter and see whatd goin on with that, bht I honestly doubt it would survive a JMod with 205k on it already
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 04:22 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I'd find an 02 transmission to rebuild; it has several parts upgraded over the 96 ones.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeofdexter View Post
bht I honestly doubt it would survive a JMod with 205k on it already
😅👌
A j-mod HELPS a transmission live longer. Unfortunately, it lowers the WOT shift points on a 96-up, possibly requiring a tune. My old 95's transmission had 220k on it when I sold the car.

My money is on the filter not fully seated, and you're getting fluid starvation. A lot of times, the old o-ring doesn't come off during a filter change.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Got the pan opened up lastnight, the filter was toast but everything else was clean, and NO big chunks on the magnet. So I took the spring out of the 1-2 for the heck of it.. Drives good as new!
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 10:45 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
...Unfortunately, it lowers the WOT shift points on a 96-up, possibly requiring a tune. ...
Al
I didn't see this at all; the shift points in the 4r70w are set by the eec.

You can change how fast something happens, which may be what you're talking about, but it should still start the shift at the same MPH/throttle setting.

A properly jmodded 02 tranny will shift in ~0.2 seconds 1-2, ~0.6 seconds 2-3 , and the 3-4 can be <1.2 seconds, if you use that, and are insane. Overlap on the 3-4 is a concern, lol.

I've measured these, by programming various pressure in the eec. That's a Limit I found by testing my stuff, but changing springs/kits in the VB gives different results.

Sonnax makes various improvements.

The longest part of tuning my car was getting the shift points correct; my Tbird drives like a manual.

Lazarus Is a manual, after it leaves first; I put a JY tranny in it, and it locks the TC after it leaves first.
I thought it would die a quick death, but it's still in there a few years later.
I'd bet it would leave the car on a WOT 3-4 shift, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 11:29 AM
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Rob did a j-mod to both my old 95 T-Bird and Brenda's old 96 Cougar. The 95 shifted WOT at 5200 before and after. The 94 shifted the 1-2 at 4000 after, don't have any "before" data. Maybe it did it before also.

My new 97 shifts WOT 1-2 at 5000, and 2-3 at 4500. No j-mod.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 02:06 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
Rob did a j-mod to both my old 95 T-Bird and Brenda's old 96 Cougar. The 95 shifted WOT at 5200 before and after. The 94 shifted the 1-2 at 4000 after, don't have any "before" data. Maybe it did it before also.

My new 97 shifts WOT 1-2 at 5000, and 2-3 at 4500. No j-mod.

Al
The upper spring has a lot to do with how that shift happens; it takes several seconds in a stock transmission.

If the shift Starts at 3000 and takes 0.2 seconds, it is a different shift than the stock 2.X seconds.

One ends at 4200, one ends at the rev limit, lol.

IDK what springs RobP used, but I'm certain it was different leaving. He's really good with these.

He can build a later than 2002 tranny to fit our cars; the 4r75W are way stronger.

Ford released a EEC update to help stock tranny problems, but by then the Jmod was everywhere.

The EEC mod is to up the pressure, drilling holes flows more at the same pressure, so same thing.

If you put in the brown spring, I Swear the 1-2 shift will always bark the tires.

Even in a school zone, at 15mph, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." - George Orwell.
Truth Isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, 2018 Award winner, “Most Outrageous Diversion” by MSNBC for this quote
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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I'll get back to you on WOT rpms from 1-2, its been raining last couple days..
👉😎👉
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