Ford's Friction Modifier in 4R70W?? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-17-2005, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Question Ford's Friction Modifier in 4R70W??

Have any of you used the Friction Modifier additive from Ford/Motorcraft with Mercon-v to get rid of the shudder or for any other reason in a 4R70W?

While I was asking questions about the Dr.Tranny shudder-fixx on a ford-tech forum, they recommended the Ford/Motorcraft Friction modifier over the Dr.Tranny additive. Just want to see if any of you've used it and if yes, how were the results?

Thanks.

Last edited by ortbird; 02-17-2005 at 10:17 AM. Reason: sp.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-17-2005, 10:38 PM
 
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I have posted here and at another Ford forum about how well the Dr. Tranny has worked for me. I don't have any experience with the Ford friction modifier.

Here is a link to the thread here where Dr. Tranny was discussed.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=57264
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation just tried the Ford FM

So, because I'm getting close to my next tranny flush anyway, I thought I'd experiment a little:
Went to the dealer and got a 4 oz. bottle of the Ford/Motorcraft Friction Modifier, and put it in thru the dipstick tube. I only made one little trip afer that, but what I noticed was that the 2-3 shift happened without me even noticing. If I hadn't been looking at the tach and listening to the engine tone, I wouldn't have noticed it at all, and I'm VERY sensitive to how my tranny behave;
and the tranny "droaning" noise that I sometimes have at 45 mph (EXACTLY at 45 mph, and ONLY at 45 mph) went away...I don't know for how long. didn't drive far enough to see how the 3-4 shift is: But bear in mind, my tranny didn't have any severe shudder anyway, just little droaning noise which I think is related to TC, the 3-4 shift had the rubber-band feeling, but has never "shuddered" since I switched to Merc-V 2 yrs ago.
I just wanted to see if that annoying droaning noise at 45 mph changed: so far it did, and the 2-3 shift became unbelivably crisp/quick/smooth.

I'll drive further today, and see better how it works on 3-4 shift, OD and beyond.
I'll try the Dr.Tranny shudder-fixx next time, which should have more FM than the Ford.

oh: btw, this Ford FM stuff STINKS! be VERY careful with it. Just because I put the rags I wiped the funnel with in the trash bin, we had to have the windows of the house open for the whole evening: wifey wasn't happy. lol

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 11:31 AM
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Go ahead and pour that **** in your trans.
I'm sure there's a trans shop out there that'll dance in the street for you..because if you do-you'll be visiting them soon.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 03:33 PM
 
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Copied from a post of mine on another thread:

Every time someone post about an additive that actually works, people come out of the wood work to bad mouth them and the product.

If something is worn out or broken, then nothing in a bottle will fix it. Some additives work in conjunction with the existing fluids to compensate for parts that are getting older and need some extra help, (note all the high mileage motor oils on the market now).

Dr. Tranny, and the Ford friction modifier, are just that, friction modifiers. Mercon V is a friction modified version of Mercon. Obiviously Mercon V is not modified enough on its own, for there are many instances of Ford T/C shudder in new cars and trucks. I read this in the Fort truck forums all the time.

Either Ford has a problem with their transmission, or their fluid, or both. If Ford didn't think their friction modifier was good for their transmissions, then why do they sell it. I am sure they put it in cars still under warranty to stop shudder instead of replacing the torque converter.

In my case, and many others, I don't have time to mess with my transmission, I don't want to, and don't have the money to pour into a car that I will never get the money back out of. If you haven't noticed, the t-birds are money pits anyway.

If the transmission or torque converter is actually fried, and needs to be replaced, then what is the harm of trying something that ends up not working, you are no worse off than before, and if the additive does work, you get quite a bit more useage out of a poorly designed transmission.

At 83k miles, I need upper control arms, sway bar end links, front wheel bearing, and I used to have T/C shudder before I added Dr. Tranny. I just replaced the IAC, and next is the great EGR port cleanout, oh yes, my P/S pump is making some noise too.

If an additive that even Ford uses will keep me from pouring more money into this money sucking thing, then good for me, I have bills to pay.

I'm not posting this to start a war. I'm just saying that some things actually work, keep an open mind. Some people don't have a lot of money and time to put into a car.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 06:07 PM
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When i worked at the dealership the only thing we used friction modifier for is traction lock rearends. this is the first ive heard of putting into transmissions.

Well.... only other thing we'd do was put used bottles around each others toolboxes to mess with someone.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2005, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yardbird82056
Copied from a post of mine on another thread:

Every time someone post about an additive that actually works, people come out of the wood work to bad mouth them and the product.

If something is worn out or broken, then nothing in a bottle will fix it. Some additives work in conjunction with the existing fluids to compensate for parts that are getting older and need some extra help, (note all the high mileage motor oils on the market now).

Dr. Tranny, and the Ford friction modifier, are just that, friction modifiers. Mercon V is a friction modified version of Mercon. Obiviously Mercon V is not modified enough on its own, for there are many instances of Ford T/C shudder in new cars and trucks. I read this in the Fort truck forums all the time.

Either Ford has a problem with their transmission, or their fluid, or both. If Ford didn't think their friction modifier was good for their transmissions, then why do they sell it. I am sure they put it in cars still under warranty to stop shudder instead of replacing the torque converter.

In my case, and many others, I don't have time to mess with my transmission, I don't want to, and don't have the money to pour into a car that I will never get the money back out of. If you haven't noticed, the t-birds are money pits anyway.

If the transmission or torque converter is actually fried, and needs to be replaced, then what is the harm of trying something that ends up not working, you are no worse off than before, and if the additive does work, you get quite a bit more useage out of a poorly designed transmission.

At 83k miles, I need upper control arms, sway bar end links, front wheel bearing, and I used to have T/C shudder before I added Dr. Tranny. I just replaced the IAC, and next is the great EGR port cleanout, oh yes, my P/S pump is making some noise too.

If an additive that even Ford uses will keep me from pouring more money into this money sucking thing, then good for me, I have bills to pay.

I'm not posting this to start a war. I'm just saying that some things actually work, keep an open mind. Some people don't have a lot of money and time to put into a car.
Thank you for this post! I agree with you about being "bad-mouthed" every time you mention an additive. I've kept my mouth shut relative to my using Dr. Tranny and it's positive effects on my Bird because I knew what bad mouthing I'd get. So lay it on. It worked for me and continues to work after over 20k. I'm so brainwashed that I even hesitate to add an additive dryer to my paint when spraying a panel or a stretch additive to paint when applying bumper paint. And, man oh man, never, never use any additive in your gas, even though dealers do it on a daily basis. Boy oh boy! Those additives are BAD! And, of course, none of them work!

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITT-BIRD
When i worked at the dealership the only thing we used friction modifier for is traction lock rearends. this is the first ive heard of putting into transmissions.

Well.... only other thing we'd do was put used bottles around each others toolboxes to mess with someone.
if you check the www.flatratetech.com forums (a forum created by ford technicians from all over the country) you'll see that Ford even recommends using the same FM additive in transmissions, and that it's often being used by Ford.

Before buying the FM and adding it, I researched several weeks on that forum, and only after i got enough info from several tech's and mastter technicians, that it was totally safe to add, did I use it.

After I heard here that it can "destroy" my tranny now(another thread in this forum), I posted the qusetion at that forum, and this is the response I got: (name not inculded, but his credentials)
----------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: "When I went to a ford technical training class for trans repairs our instructor said it was ok to add one bottle of Ford FM to any trans you overhaul/fix/replace etc, and ford will pay for it under warranty as it is a ford chemical..."

ASE Master Technician
Senior Master Ford Technician
Ford Diesel Certified Tech
SVT Certified Tech
FlatRateTech Staff
6LPS Staff Tech
--------------------------------------------
I don;t hink this guy is lying, or has any reason to advice me wrongly. I've trusted him before, and he's also one of thses tech's who rarely believes in additives, but he does believe in this one, at least that it won't harm the tranny if it deosn't work.

if the Ford FM is not safe to add, the Dr.tranny-thing can never be safe, because it has close to 5x the concentration of FM the Ford additive has!

YARDBIRD:
well written/well said/Thanks.

Last edited by ortbird; 02-20-2005 at 09:55 AM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-20-2005, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortbird
if you check the www.flatratetech.com forums (a forum created by ford technicians from all over the country) you'll see that Ford even recommends using the same FM additive in transmissions, and that it's often being used by Ford.

Before buying the FM and adding it, I researched several weeks on that forum, and only after i got enough info from several tech's and mastter technicians, that it was totally safe to add, did I use it.

if the Ford FM is not safe to add, the Dr.tranny-thing can never be safe, because it has close to 5x the concentration of FN the Ford additive has!

YARDBIRD:
well written/well said/Thanks.
Kool... i kinda stayed away from tranny work, so its probably why i never heard it before. I mostly started doing major work like swapping chassis to driveability. I liked driveability better and did mostly that. Good to know though, but i wont be putting in mine anytime soon if i can help it.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 11:57 AM
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I have had a ford master tech tell me to use it also.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 05:24 PM
 
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Had shudder with 2 NEW torque converters from ford dealership (98 mark viii converter the ???-BARM one) , 24,000 B&M tranny cooler and full fill of new mercon V from dealership.

Poured Dr. Tranny's in one bottle a hunderd miles later NO MORE SHUDDER. That was 20,000 miles ago. I was ready to sell the car before I found this stuff. $5.

I didn't believe in snake oils but I was at my wits end with this car so I tried this stuff. I tried 2 different brand new torque converters from the ford dealership. I wasn't about to pull the tranny for a third try. Now either I'm the most unlucky SOB on the planet to get two bad brand new torque converters from ford or this stuff works.

Car was a 94 mark viii Just my experience but it worked for me and I think if it were to screw up a 4r70w it would have done it within 20,000 miles.

Last edited by biggyzzz; 02-23-2005 at 05:35 PM.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggyzzz
Had shudder with a NEW torque converter from ford dealership (98 mark viii converter) , B&M tranny cooler and full fill of new mercon V from dealership.


Poured Dr. Tranny's in one bottle a hunderd miles later NO MORE SHUDDER. That was 20,000 miles ago. I was ready to sell the car before I found this stuff. $5.
Either you got a converter with slag in the clutch or your pcm needed to be updated. I personally think additives are dumb, the right fluid should take care of the problem as long as everything works properly mechanically.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
I have had a ford master tech tell me to use it also
These are also the same morons that swear you cannot use Merc-V in a pre-98 4R70W.
Quote:
I tried 2 different brand new torque converters from the ford dealership. I wasn't about to pull the tranny for a third try. Now either I'm the most unlucky SOB on the planet to get two bad brand new torque converters from ford or this stuff works.
If that's the stock EEC program,then it'll destroy a TCC in a matter of time.It allows slip for the majority of the driving cycle,and that'll kill any TCC,even a PI triple.

Let's also define what a friction modifier is/does.
Friction modifiers MODIFY the properties of the fluid that they are poured into to allow MORE SLIPPAGE,and this allows the TCC to apply without shuddering,same thing in allowing the clutches in a traction-lok diff to SLIP when needed.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 05:46 PM
 
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I updated my previous post I tried 2 converters both did the same thing. All the fluid was new from ford mercon V 13 qts I believe. Is there a PCM update for a 94 mark viii? None of the lincoln boards I read have ever mentioned one. Spending $300 for a chip to correct this was not an option for me.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 06:14 PM
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There is an update from Ford for the trans programming ... Have them hook it up to the WDS and see if it has been updated by ford or not. Its a ford program that uses all stock computer. Just a software update from ford. VERY common thing to do and check when even new vehicles come in for service.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yardbird82056
Copied from a post of mine on another thread:

Every time someone post about an additive that actually works, people come out of the wood work to bad mouth them and the product.

If something is worn out or broken, then nothing in a bottle will fix it. Some additives work in conjunction with the existing fluids to compensate for parts that are getting older and need some extra help, (note all the high mileage motor oils on the market now).

Dr. Tranny, and the Ford friction modifier, are just that, friction modifiers. Mercon V is a friction modified version of Mercon. Obiviously Mercon V is not modified enough on its own, for there are many instances of Ford T/C shudder in new cars and trucks. I read this in the Fort truck forums all the time.

Either Ford has a problem with their transmission, or their fluid, or both. If Ford didn't think their friction modifier was good for their transmissions, then why do they sell it. I am sure they put it in cars still under warranty to stop shudder instead of replacing the torque converter.

In my case, and many others, I don't have time to mess with my transmission, I don't want to, and don't have the money to pour into a car that I will never get the money back out of. If you haven't noticed, the t-birds are money pits anyway.

If the transmission or torque converter is actually fried, and needs to be replaced, then what is the harm of trying something that ends up not working, you are no worse off than before, and if the additive does work, you get quite a bit more useage out of a poorly designed transmission.

At 83k miles, I need upper control arms, sway bar end links, front wheel bearing, and I used to have T/C shudder before I added Dr. Tranny. I just replaced the IAC, and next is the great EGR port cleanout, oh yes, my P/S pump is making some noise too.

If an additive that even Ford uses will keep me from pouring more money into this money sucking thing, then good for me, I have bills to pay.

I'm not posting this to start a war. I'm just saying that some things actually work, keep an open mind. Some people don't have a lot of money and time to put into a car.

Copied from a post of mine on another thread:

stfu noob.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 10:30 PM
 
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Originally posted by JustinH:
Quote:
stfu noob.
Is this post directed at me?
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yardbird82056
Originally posted by JustinH:
Is this post directed at me?
Well i dont see how its not but... i didnt make the post.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
These are also the same morons that swear you cannot use Merc-V in a pre-98 4R70W
JL
Of course; I'm sure there are a lot of Ford (or other) tech's who're like that. I knew such a tech at the dealership where I bought the car. But this is exactly what's different about flatratetech.com. It's 99% percent free from such tech's that you call morons. I've seen many a thread at that forumwhere someone would ask about Mercon-v etc., and all the guys in that forum never hesitate to recommend Mercon-V to 4R70W's built before 98. They often refer people to read technical write-ups at tccoa, jerry-mod etc. One of the main interests of that forum is to lead people away from wrong info like "Merc-V is bad for pre-98 trnas" etc.
That's why I believed that they do know things about additives etc.

so i don't think you should compare them to most of the "reguler" mechanics you see at dealerships. jus mo.
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