I think my car is eating the differential. Again. - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-30-2010, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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I think my car is eating the differential. Again.

OK long story short.

Decided to upgrade to 3.73's. First differential = built with wrong diff side gear thing, the part was intended for a mustang which has different spline count. Found out before I drove because the car would roll in park!!!!!!!!!!

Sent it back to guy who built it. Came back with right spline count. Differential hummed from the get go, and over two years gradually developed a clunk and more and more play constantly.

I just installed ANOTHER 3.73 trac-lock diff. After install it was WONDERFUL compared to the one it replaced which had a ridiculous amount of play. But after only two weeks it too is developing play/clunking. Just jacked up the car and it sure is clunking when I turn the wheel (in neutral or park, obviously it only turns a little bit in park but makes the clunk sound when it "grabs"

My heart dropped when I heard it.

All Glory to God!

RIP JOHNNY LANGTON

96 LX PI/Jspec Pearl White. She enjoys eating ricers for breakfast
-MODS-
2002 PI 4.6L - Jspec Trans built by Darrin - 04 Marauder converter - Hayden 679 Trans cooler - Engine cooling modification - SCT Xcal2, tuned by Lonnie - 02 GT MAF and 99 GT Intake tube - removed silencer - 255 lph HP fuel pump - Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 TL - 245/60/15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A's - PBR front brakes - SCP Rear torsional load brace - SCP Solid rubber motor, transmission mounts - Rear Strut Tower brace and Diff cover brace by Rod

Last edited by 96_LX; 02-21-2010 at 09:09 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 01:02 AM
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" maybe i shoul buy a honda" lol

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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Hah I know it sounds funny. But really, I need a reliable car. And although the Tbird has done fairly well, everytime I fix something something else needs fixing.

All Glory to God!

RIP JOHNNY LANGTON

96 LX PI/Jspec Pearl White. She enjoys eating ricers for breakfast
-MODS-
2002 PI 4.6L - Jspec Trans built by Darrin - 04 Marauder converter - Hayden 679 Trans cooler - Engine cooling modification - SCT Xcal2, tuned by Lonnie - 02 GT MAF and 99 GT Intake tube - removed silencer - 255 lph HP fuel pump - Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 TL - 245/60/15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A's - PBR front brakes - SCP Rear torsional load brace - SCP Solid rubber motor, transmission mounts - Rear Strut Tower brace and Diff cover brace by Rod
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 08:58 AM
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The car is 14 years old, maybe you should have bought something newer. A lot of people here have MN12s as projects, not daily drivers.

Find a Ranger, Crown Victoria, 1996+ Escort, Focus or a F150 as a replacement. They are the most reliable cars/trucks on the road.

-=James
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 11:10 AM
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I think you should have bought a Honda too. Like said the car is old. And will have some issues. So if ya cant work on it or have the patience for it then get rid of it.

Hell I blew first gear in my tranny. Which when it died I laughed because Sh!t happens.
And it needs swaybar links AGAIN. And gets about 12mpg, and needs a new LMAF. Dont see me *****ing.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird View Post
I think you should have bought a Honda too. Like said the car is old. And will have some issues. So if ya cant work on it or have the patience for it then get rid of it.

Hell I blew first gear in my tranny. Which when it died I laughed because Sh!t happens.
And it needs swaybar links AGAIN. And gets about 12mpg, and needs a new LMAF. Dont see me *****ing.
hey Larry, are you going to be working on those this winter? If you need an extra set of hands let me know, i would love to help and learn stuff.

same thing goes for anyone else in western NY lol.
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
hey Larry, are you going to be working on those this winter? If you need an extra set of hands let me know, i would love to help and learn stuff.

same thing goes for anyone else in western NY lol.
Yes Ive talked to someone already about getting the parts ordered for the trans. Ill be probley digging into it around spring time. So maybe early April im thinking. And yeah I'd love some help. And I'll be more then happy to show ya some basic R&R. Did you ever get your runners fixed? Maybe we can do that as well while you're here.


You still got my number?

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
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Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 02:28 PM
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get a guy that knows how to work on diffs and break in the gears properly and shouldnt have a problem
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95xbird View Post
Yes Ive talked to someone already about getting the parts ordered for the trans. Ill be probley digging into it around spring time. So maybe early April im thinking. And yeah I'd love some help. And I'll be more then happy to show ya some basic R&R. Did you ever get your runners fixed? Maybe we can do that as well while you're here.


You still got my number?
no I didn't fix that yet, it would be great if you could give me a hand.

Yeah i have your number you need mine?
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 03:51 PM
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Sounds like cheap gears,used explorer gears(early were junk) or improper setup on the differential to me. Everyone wants to do the cheap easy job on the differential and just install a set of gears with nothing more than a new crush sleeve and seal. I refuse to do it because the end result is always what you have. Unless the thing has very low miles on it it should be completely rebuilt all at once. The backlash adjustment is critical, but the pattern is detrimental.
Alan

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 03:59 PM
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My bird is a daily driver a 94 with the stock motor and 119k miles on it. Its modified a little too. I have broken a few parts along the way as well, my fault. THe trick is to not get stupid with it some parts are just not street compatible. With all thsoe mods did you bother to repair and rebuilt the worn out crap first. Even sh1t like the door hinges should come first before you dump $$$ into things like gears. I spent a year just doing/learning the old suspension parts swap out.

Some people are strange they will swap a motor before they do rust repair so go figure, the last mn12 bird to be running daily driver duty in the future is owned by the most responsible person today. I even delivered pizza in the hot az summer with and it survived.

An old car is a cheap car, to keep an old car running you have to be responsible about it. I have a built pumpkin still sitting waiting to be installed. If ever I have a problem I have my stock one to swap back into it.

Spinning pies like wheels.

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Now with new ball joints...again
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-31-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
no I didn't fix that yet, it would be great if you could give me a hand.

Yeah i have your number you need mine?
Nah I got it. Ill let ya know when im Getting to work on it.

04 PI swap,SVO Supercharger 8-9 psi,Alcohol injection,39lbs Cobra injectors,XCal2-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump,4.10 T-Lok,2003 4R70W built to withstand by RobertP,450hp JMOD,3800 circleD stall,trucool 4739 Trans Cooler,Dynotech 3.5 Driveshaft,70mm T/B,SCP Cold Air Intake,90mm LMAF,JBA headers,Magnaflow Midmount,No cats with 3inch piping,Vogtland 1.6inch drop,Cobra R's and xenon body kit.

Its slow, Really.
LS1 KILLER
1995 svo Tbird. R.I.P.
Parts FOR SALE http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=132585
96 Pearl white bird. Awaiting transplants from the 95
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-01-2010, 09:09 AM
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to the op, who did the work on the diff?

Nick......................I'm back!!!
May you fly low and fast
rest in peace JL
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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I did the removal/installations (3 now). As far as who built the original diff, I would rather not go there. For all I know I just screwed up on all three installs, so I don't want to place blame.

I had a mechanic check the first differential right after the 2nd install because of the whining noise, he showed me that the wear pattern was PERFECTLY centered, could not have been set better. He advised me that the whining noise was definitely a bad bearing and the backlash was correct. The builder of the diff gave me the phone number for the carrier manufacturer and left it to me. Later he offered to tear it down for a flat rate for labor and then he would repair, but it would have cost me $100+ just in shipping and I already had $1100 in it to start.

This second diff that is in the car now was purchased from a TCCOA'er who stated it had 12K miles on it. I had this one checked too by a mechanic before install. Again, backlash and gear pattern dead on and he said that it looked to have low wear/mileage so the 12K miles was plausible.

Immediately after install, like I said in the OP, diff was incredible, smooth, quiet, tight. Since that post it is obvious the problem is slowly getting worse just like with the first diff. The most noticeable difference is in the shifts. When I first installed this TL diff, the 1-2 shift would chirp my tires hard even at low throttle, with no clunking in the rear, like it was tight. Now, it takes moderate (obviously more) throttle before tires chirp, and the shift is immediately followed with a clunking noise in the rear, and I can feel play/shift shock like its just getting "loose". I guess I could imagine this stuff, but I doubt it. I was hoping the play was just control arm bushings or something, but the noice is apparent when turning the rear tires to turn the axle to turn the diff (like I said in OP)

I have accepted the fact that I will have to live with the clunking until I have figured this problem out and decide to replace it. I will probably go with 4.10s next time just because I have to do all this over again, but I hope this diff lasts as driveable for 2 years or so, like the first one.

The point of my post is to try to figure out why this is happening. The only thing that I can think is that the axles were damaged with the bad side gears in the original install of the first differential - but I inspected the axles before installing the second diff, and they look fine. I tried to buy new c-clips but they are no longer available at the Ford dealer here. The originals looked fine anyway, and other TCCOA'ers confirmed they have re-used theirs before too.

P.S. Splattered - Yes, I have done many repairs to this car. There is not a speck of rust anywhere, I just did all the suspension (just need to do upper shock mounts now). Like my sig says, I have replaced the whole drivetrain, all mounts except rear subframe mount bushings. There are a couple of minor things to do, getting a new windshield monday, brake and trans fluid are due for flush soon, and my SC 145mph speedo gauge odometer gear needs to be replaced, but the door hinges are surprisingly still ok. But overall this car has been cared for well.

All Glory to God!

RIP JOHNNY LANGTON

96 LX PI/Jspec Pearl White. She enjoys eating ricers for breakfast
-MODS-
2002 PI 4.6L - Jspec Trans built by Darrin - 04 Marauder converter - Hayden 679 Trans cooler - Engine cooling modification - SCT Xcal2, tuned by Lonnie - 02 GT MAF and 99 GT Intake tube - removed silencer - 255 lph HP fuel pump - Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 TL - 245/60/15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A's - PBR front brakes - SCP Rear torsional load brace - SCP Solid rubber motor, transmission mounts - Rear Strut Tower brace and Diff cover brace by Rod

Last edited by 96_LX; 02-06-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:46 PM
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Sounds like you need to use a solid pinion spacer in the next one.
Alan

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Last edited by dirtyd0g; 02-07-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 11:51 PM
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Dirtydog, could you elaborate on the solid pinion spacer? What would it replace, and why would I need one instead of what is normally used? Does it have something to do with a "crush sleeve" part I have heard about? Sorry for my lack of knowledge when it comes to the differential. I really wish I knew someone around here that could just help me figure out once and for all. At least help me figure out what I need to throw more money at, lol!

I have wondered, am I maybe having this recurring problem because the differential just can't handle the driveline shock from the really hard 1-2 shift my awesome Darrin-built transmission makes? I just haven't read of anyone else having this problem.

Something else I am concerned about: Is it possible that I mistakenly interchanged the two CV axles? Like put them on the wrong side? Are they different lengths, or exactly the same?

All Glory to God!

RIP JOHNNY LANGTON

96 LX PI/Jspec Pearl White. She enjoys eating ricers for breakfast
-MODS-
2002 PI 4.6L - Jspec Trans built by Darrin - 04 Marauder converter - Hayden 679 Trans cooler - Engine cooling modification - SCT Xcal2, tuned by Lonnie - 02 GT MAF and 99 GT Intake tube - removed silencer - 255 lph HP fuel pump - Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 TL - 245/60/15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A's - PBR front brakes - SCP Rear torsional load brace - SCP Solid rubber motor, transmission mounts - Rear Strut Tower brace and Diff cover brace by Rod

Last edited by 96_LX; 02-19-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 03:27 PM
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Solid pinion spacer is a replacement for the crush sleeve. They are around $20 IIRC and worth every penny.
Alan

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Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Is that something that requires complete tear down of the diff, or something that can be easily swapped?

All Glory to God!

RIP JOHNNY LANGTON

96 LX PI/Jspec Pearl White. She enjoys eating ricers for breakfast
-MODS-
2002 PI 4.6L - Jspec Trans built by Darrin - 04 Marauder converter - Hayden 679 Trans cooler - Engine cooling modification - SCT Xcal2, tuned by Lonnie - 02 GT MAF and 99 GT Intake tube - removed silencer - 255 lph HP fuel pump - Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 TL - 245/60/15 BFGoodrich Radial T/A's - PBR front brakes - SCP Rear torsional load brace - SCP Solid rubber motor, transmission mounts - Rear Strut Tower brace and Diff cover brace by Rod
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