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post #1 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-02-2011, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Easiest Traclok

I have a stock Mark aluminum diff now and was wantin to make a tracklok out of it. Plan on picking up an SC diff and was wondering if its worth moving evrything into the Mark diff just to keep it aluminum or just throw in the SC diff and go? Plan on putting in 3.73's as well. Already picked up 3 quarts of 75w90 Royal Purple to avoid the friction modifier additive. Thanks.
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post #2 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-02-2011, 09:07 PM
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You can buy the trac-loks from SCP or summit reasonably. They have come down a good bit in the last couple years. You'll need someone to assemble it for you that has a case spreader. I made my own. I suggest new bearings while you are there, and gears are always a good thing if you don't already have at least a 3.73.
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post #3 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-02-2011, 11:53 PM
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post #4 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-03-2011, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, youre already saving me money lol.
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post #5 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Well upon further searching I tihnk I will do a combination of three if I can. The traclok unit of an SC and the gears of an Explorer put into the mark diff. I saw the thread of the explorer having factory 3.73's however it didnt say what years to get them from. Anyone know? Thanks.
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post #6 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 09:47 PM
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Yeah don't do that, explorer gears were screamers, but they are plentiful.
Buy new frpp gears and be done with it. You are about to find building the diff is more difficult than you think.
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post #7 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-04-2011, 10:42 PM
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You are about to find building the diff is more difficult than you think.
Alan
Yah, I've read the Ford service manual. I'll put that along with an auto transmission rebuild - best done by an expert.

For which, I am NOT an expert! I just have to follow Pournelle's Law (find someone who knows what s/he is doing, open the wallet, and smile while they help themselves.)

*grumbles* Mean no disrespect, Alan, but you're too far without me putting some coin into shipping (which I just may do!), but we used to have a fantastic transmission shop in town. The owner closed it when he hit 60 and retired ... oh, and the state bought it for the entrance ramp to the Arthur Teague Parkway. Sigh.

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post #8 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:30 AM
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The person who started this thread isn't very far away at all. I went to highschool less than 1/2 hour away from him but I am about 1.5 hours away now. That still wasn't what I was getting at.

Differentials can be a wonderful thing when done correctly. They are not to be taken light hearted as failure can be destructive. What appears to be simple parts assembly really isn't that simple. The chances of the pinion shim being the same are good if you use the one from the original case and it isn't mutilated, but the carrier shims being the same would be a miracle. The caps must be marked and go back on exactly the way they were removed, seal leakage is common. The solution is an OEM seal with the proper seal installer. It is also important to polish the flange on a lathe.

I personally have about $2500 worth of tools for the purpose of changing gears and rebuilding differentials. Some of the tools I had to make myself. It is hard to beat a solid pinion spacer but I find the best ones you just have to make yourself with a lathe and a piece of tubing or the solid pinion spacer kit. The shims never seem to get the number you want for perfection, I find they need to be within about .003 to get a perfect fit and the shims in those kits are .008.
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post #9 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:42 AM
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Having a diff built is basically something to be done by the best in town if thats not good enough the shipping you pay to get a proper unit sent to you is worth it. Its not something many shops deal with as I have learned. There are dedicated diff shops here if that tells you something.

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post #10 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Advice duely noted DD. I will order some gears instead and just go with the SC unit ang not worry about swapping it into the marks. Im sure the weight difference between the two really wont make any difference. Good lookin out.
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post #11 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:01 AM
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rebuilding a diff is not really that hard you make it out to be.

And you don't need 2500 worth of tools to do it.

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post #12 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:09 AM
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No rebuilding isn't just put all the shims and spacers where they went, if you go changing things the process changes.
No you don't need $2500 worth of tools to do it, but you need $2500 worth of tools to do it right quickly. The pinion depth gauge I use is expensive, but I don't mind investing in proper tools to do a job if I am going to do the job enough to make it worth it. Yes you can beat the seals in with a hammer, I prefer to use a proper seal installer.
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post #13 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:11 AM
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You've shipped enough - about how much is a loaded diff shipped? Iron for worst case?

Gotta start saving up for that also.

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post #14 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:12 AM
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who said it was the way you describe?

you might like to spend $2500 on tools for gear changes, but I don't do it for a living.
I borrow the tools I need, and buy what I will reuse from time to time.

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post #15 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:52 AM
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Sorry I don't do the borrowed tools thing, I have lost too many expensive tools to being loaned out. Sounds like you need to borrow a shop because you need a press, How do you intend to clean everything. Does every person want their shop smelling like friction modifier? Need a side bearing puller, if it gets stubborn use a torch to loosen them up. Need a large bearing splitter, a good one is really expensive. I guess you are going to spend a few hours hand sanding the flange? I have a drain table that the oil goes to a bucket underneath and then I clean it up with brake cleaner, not everyone will want that on their bench or floor. Also need a good indicator, flange holder, large torque wrench (250ft-lb). If you aren't going to use a solid pinion spacer you have to crush the sleeve. Have fun with that part, an impact is a bad idea. Every time I see someone use an impact the bearings fail quickly including the once I tried it. Even to use an impact you will need an air supply of 175+ PSI and a very good gun.

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post #16 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
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who said it was the way you describe?

you might like to spend $2500 on tools for gear changes, but I don't do it for a living.
I borrow the tools I need, and buy what I will reuse from time to time.
We will be looking forward to your write up on how to properly build a differential using little to nothing in tools.
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post #17 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:17 AM
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We will be looking forward to your write up on how to properly build a differential using little to nothing in tools.
Alan
hold your breath.

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post #18 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:27 AM
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hold your breath.
Oh come on, go ahead put your time and effort where your mouth is, it will be fun...For us. Besides we all really want to watch you sitting in a cave by the fire rebuilding a differential with a hammer and chisel you crafted yourself! Just watch out for the bears!
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post #19 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:31 AM
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I have to say I don't see why people make rebuilding a diff out to be such a complicated process. I have rebuilt at least 30 diffs, with the only special tools being a press to change the bearings, a dial indicator to check backlash, and the paint to check the tooth pattern. None have ever blown up, and the only one that ever made any noise was the one in the lemons car had a bit of a howl after boiling the gear oil out of it after 10 straight hours of road racing and running 130 down to 40 back to 130 again every 90 seconds. A case spreader is nice to have, especially if you are doing a bunch of them, but you can get it back together with a brass punch and a bench vise, so if you are only looking to rebuild your own diff, it is not necessary. For pinion depth, either reuse the factory shim, or measure the thickness of it so you know what size to use on the new one. Pinion depth shims are case specific, so as long as you match the shim to the case, you should be alright. If for some reason the tooth pattern is too high or too low once you get everything together, then you can take it back apart and adjust it, but unless someone has already been in there and screwed it up, or unless you are using some cheap gearset or somthing, reusing the factory shim will be alright. For the side shims, again, reusing the factory ones in the correct locations should give you a good starting point. Most of the time, you will be lucky and it will come out perfect by putting all the factory shims back in their original locations, but if it doesn't, that will show up in the backlash and tooth pattern, and you can adjust it from there. Having $2500 worth of tools is a good way to make sure that you only have to put the diff together once, but considering a new crush sleeve is about $12, and even if you have to take everything back apart it will take you a couple extra hours, you do always have the option of putting it together and seeing where you are at, and making adjustments accordingly to get it where it needs to be. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then by all means pay someone else to do it, but if you are comfortable doing other work on your own car, then rebuilding the diff should be no exception.

Edit: Forgot to mention the torque wrench, I guess that does qualify as a special tool, even though I consider it a tool that every car enthusiast should own. As far as crushing the sleeve, chock the diff in a vice, screw in 2 driveshaft bolts, and hold the flange from turning with a prybar while tightening the pinion nut with a breaker bar.

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post #20 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:33 AM
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Oh come on, go ahead put your time and effort where your mouth is, it will be fun...For us. Besides we all really want to watch you sitting in a cave by the fire rebuilding a differential with a hammer and chisel you crafted yourself! Just watch out for the bears!
Alan
No need to do what you are asking........I have the info I need for doing what I do.
I'm not here to please you.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find or get the info on rebuilding a diff. like you make it out to be.
I'm happy that you do this for a living, I do it for my enjoyment.

And no bears around here....but I have seen some chupacabra!

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post #21 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:52 AM
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Gears aren't something I do for a living but after investing all the money in tools to do it right it becomes something I do for people to recover the tools expense. I know plenty of guys who beat them together with a hammer, it's like an alignment. I can eye ball and alignment to make it drive but that doesn't make it the best technique.
Finding a vice strong enough to hold one of these diffs is not easy and if you do it will be over $1000. I know mine just broke and I had to have it welded. Most torque wrenches will not do 250ft-lb and not every mechanic has one that large. You also need the inch lb dial torque wrench to check preload. I got lucky and found a new old stock one at the flea market for $75 but new they are very expensive. Then again if it isn't a concern to how long it will last you can slam it together with improper preload, which apparently both of you do.

I find it humorous that some of the most experienced mechanics I know will not touch differentials because of the things I mentioned and concerns with quality control, but others think they can do it properly in their garage with little to nothing.
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post #22 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:55 AM
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If either of you need some spare crush sleeves I have about 20 of them you can have for $2.50 each I was going to put a lot of them on ebay. Racing and hard launching is hard on crush sleeves so I quit using them. The impact smashes them a bit more then the bearings get loose.
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post #23 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:00 AM
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inch lb tq wrench is the one major tool that I borrow, so, you are wrong in assuming we don't check preload.
but that is awesome you found one that cheap!!

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post #24 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:33 AM
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So we have been reduced to beggers logic, it doesn't take expensive tools to build one because you just borrow them all.... That is a heck of a way to suggest people do something. That is liek saying it doesn't take expensive tools to build an engine because you just borrow them all....When I went to tech school our teacher taught us a logic. The first time you need a tool borrow it, the second time buy it. Of course that depends on knowing someone with the correct tools. I built my first at the shop I used to work for and used mostly their tools, I bought a few and the rest I made or already had.
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post #25 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
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good for you Alan.
Like I said you don't know what I have, and clearly can't read. read post #14.
If you feel reduced, then your loss. No hard feelings from my end.
I just know good people.
And we're aren't all as rich as you clearly keep trying to rub in.
you seem to be grasping at straws.

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post #26 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:09 PM
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Hehe You are clearly confused. I just don't like seeing you tell people this is some simple job anybody can do with little to nothing in tools and that is what you are saying.
Me rich, haha that is funny I wish it were true. I bet when all was said and done you made more last year than I did. Running a business in this economy is a struggle to stay afloat. I am still making payments on most of my large equipment and will be for quite some time. If I were rich I would have bought it and been done. Tools on the other hand do count as business expense for me. I believe in getting the right tools to do the job right. You can disagree if you like but I am sure if you talk to any of the professionals in the industry they will all agree with me. I'm sure that isn't as important as your opinion but it is the truth. What straws am I grasping at? The straw that has printed on it "do the job right the first time before someone gets hurt" yeah I guess I did pull that one.
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post #27 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:13 PM
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You keep saying little to nothing in tools, please show me where I said that?
Yes, there is a right tool for the right job, but you keep implying that I don't use the correct tools?
Those are the straws I'm talking about.

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post #28 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _95badbird View Post
rebuilding a diff is not really that hard you make it out to be.

And you don't need 2500 worth of tools to do it.
That what you forgot about?
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post #29 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Now me myself have little to nothing tools and the way this thing has fought me with everything else Id rather pay to have someone else do it. I like to try to do as much work as I can where I can but this definatly isnt my old 86 mustang where everything was easy. A diff is probly easy to those who have done a few but hell I cant even get my TCC lockup issue worked out and nobody I've taken it to seems to know whats wrong with it. You guys have figured more out about my car without even seeing it than the guys who have had hands on experience with it. Thats why I come to you. Plan on having a video of the goings on with it on here by tomorrow.
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post #30 of 66 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 06:53 AM
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Well, for the most part doing gears on this is practically the same as your 86, except you can set this case on the bench a whole lot more easily The first couple of gear changes I did, was a very daunting task. I didnt mount my dial indicator properly, just held it, lol. Talk about accuracy. It wound up being just fine though and making some whining sounds for a couple of years or so until I went 3.73s (which were used by someone that just threw them into a Mustang, so they were a little noisy.) This time (the third for my own vehicle) will be the charm I think, since I got all new everything and I know what to look out for. Good luck and let us know what you do!

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