4.10 troubles - TCCoA Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
4.10 troubles

How much clearance should there be between my pinion and trac lock unit? I know with a .002 shim smaller than what was stock it hits. We moved it back to where it had plenty of room to clear and the pattern says it needs to be closer. Help please?!

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:31 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
I have never had that problem, what are you setting backlash at? Are they OEM gears or aftermarket?
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
I ordered them from american muscle they are supposed to be frpp. The backlash shouldn't affect it hitting should it?

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:52 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
Ok lets simplify. What pinion shim are you using and why did you use that shim? If the pattern says it needs to go back what is the backlash setting that tells you that?
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Well the stock shim was .034 so we started off with a .032 and it locked up on the diff. Then we pit in a .020 to make sure it would clear even after it all heated up. Im not sure about the backlash my mechanic set that. I was just lending a helping hand

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:13 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
something isn't right. Bearings not pressed on all the way or something.
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Idk im gonna go back next week and try shimming it .028 and make sure all the races and bearings are seated properly. It actually drove and sounded good but as soon as it started coasting it drowned out my straight pipes it was so loud

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:31 PM
Seasoned PostWhore

Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,430
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
If your pinion gear is hitting your differential, then something was installed improperly, and it would not be solved by changing shim thicknesses. If the stock pinion shim was .034, then what needs to go back on it is a .034. That shim thickness is case specific, and if you are putting it back in the stock housing, the pinion shim needs to be transferred over. If you are assembling this in a different housing, and you don't know what thickness pinion shim was used in that housing, then you will need either a special tool to check that measurement, or you will need to spend a lot of time disassembling and reassembling the diff and checking the tooth pattern to find out what it needs to be.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
It is the same housing just everything else is new. The pinion gear head is thicker on my new one so probably can't use the stock shim

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:50 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
I was thinking if he forgot the shim it may hit, Watch out for worn shims. If the bearing was too bad they will be smashed and not work correctly so you have to replace them. As long as that shim of .024 or larger is in place I don't see the pinion hitting the carrier. Can I ask what the preload is?
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
We didn't have any problem with the gears hitting the housing. I don't have a clue on the preload. If the preload was to low would it cause this? I think the pinion gear head was atleast .006 thicker is that normal or should I be calling AM?

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
The preload will tell you if the bearings are installed correctly and the crush sleeve is correctly crushed.
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Oh ok. I will make sure when I get over there next week. I know my mechanic has set up tons of gears in chevys and he said this was the only set he has never felt comfortable with.

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 02:31 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Chris_Murder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 5,408
Send a message via AIM to Chris_Murder
A few concerns. If a new differential pinion needs a different shim the part will be marked as such on the head or side of the pinion. Example +0.002 or -0.003 or +0.001... Etc... You get the point, in that case you are to add or subtract that number to the current shim. If the new pinion gear wasn't marked as such then the factory shim should be reused unless it is beyond the point of reuse such as excessively worn or uneven wear due to destroyed/deteriorated bearings. Otherwise a "true" or +/- 0.000 is assumed to be true with the new part as per standards.

As far as the non collapsible pinion sleeve instead of the standard crush sleeve in my opinion those are for the backyard mechanic or customer who is likely to change gears frequently, it should not be needed by anyone who sets up gears properly for a living, the whole point is that it is reusable in case changes are needed.

Backlash and preload measurements would be helpful as well as a picture of your current tooth pattern for diagnostic assistance. At this point I'd also measure ring gear run out, I'm guessing this guy didn't even use new hardware on the ring gear as needed let alone follow the proper tightening sequence.

I've set up a few differentials Fords and Chevys. I don't like to do it because it's not my specialty and just like everything else I dedicate way too much time doing it then I'll get compensated for, especially if it's for a close friend, family member, or one of my own personal vehicles. Unless it's right I don't want my name associated with it.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
Amber_Murder's Daily Driver.
-2005 White GMC Sierra 3500 6.6 Duramax, Dually, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG Commercial T/A's, Rancho RS9000XL Shocks, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, Banks Monster Exhaust
Chris_Murder's Daily Driver.
Chris_Murder is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Every thing except the housing was brand new. Bearings, trac lock, and gears. The only marking I remember seeing was a S but I will look closely when we pull it back out. I know for a fact we can't use the original shim because with less shim it hit the locker. If it still gives me problems next week when we have another go at it I will get all measurements and post them up.
cordb is offline  
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 07:43 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: carthage
Age: 37
Posts: 2,435
Send a message via AIM to RobertP
Put the stock pinion shim back in then adjust the backlash accordingly, sounds like some is very lost, not being mean I'm just saying

www.robstireandauto.com for all your car needs and parts
95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
RobertP is offline  
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
I actually prefer the solid pinion spacer but it really doesn't save any time. They are more durable for a car that is run hard, especially hard launches. You still have to nail the preload.
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertP View Post
Put the stock pinion shim back in then adjust the backlash accordingly, sounds like some is very lost, not being mean I'm just saying
If I put the original shim back in the pinion gear will still lock up on the trac lock. I had to move it farther towards the front to keep it from connecting. Yes I am lost and so is my mechanic because he has never seen one do that and thought the stock shim was the way to go as well. Im beginning to think I just got a set of s*** gears!

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 09:00 PM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
I would send the gears back if everything is correct and that is happening.
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Woodlawn, AR
Posts: 42
Well got it all lined out this morning. Guess when we installed it the pinion some how got in a bind because it had the proper load but never crushed the sleeve. Apparently after I drove it everything freed back up and put the slack back in it. So we just got the sleeve crushed and reset the backlash and it runs down the road nice and quiet now. Oh and just to ad the .020 shim is what we went with on the pinion. The gear head was so much thicker the stock one just wouldn't work.

97 lx under construction
cordb is offline  
post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-06-2011, 12:51 AM
Converter Guy
 
dirtyd0g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: batavia,oh
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Send a message via Yahoo to dirtyd0g
Ah The crush sleeve didn't slide all the way down. Some of the are like that. Part of why I don't use crush sleeves anymore.
Alan

DirtyDog Performance.Com
Proud sponsor of the SC/XR7 Shootout and Joel Bender Memorial Nats

Please do not send me messages on forums they are too hard to keep up with and I don't check in very often anymore call me at 513 898-1580 or email me alan at dirtydogperformance.com
dirtyd0g is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome