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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Diff Recommendation for Big Torque

What are the cars making over 400 lb-ft using for differentials? Anybody using an Auburn Pro or Ected Max? How are they holding up?

I've got a Torsen T2 that has survived about 120 dragstrip launches, but most of those were before the latest combo which puts down 416 lb-ft.

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 07:10 PM
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I am a believer in 31 spline ford OEM housings, for big torque you nmeed to look at a level 5 setup for the rear and modified cobra axles. Stack the clutches with 4 on each side for a 25% upgrade and use a solid pinion spacer.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 07:29 PM
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I'm running a stock track loc unit with 516 ft lb

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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 07:29 PM
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+1 on that solid pinion spacer.

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 09:07 PM
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I'm still using a Trac-Loc with the alternate stacking and F-150 S-spring at 478rwhp/390 rwtq. No issues thus far. I want to say that David Neibert's '91 SC (499.66 rwhp/467.65 rwtq) is running the same, and his '93 turbo'd SC (726.7 rwhp/592.2 rwtq) is running a Auburn Pro. If I ever kill the Trac-Loc, I'll either rebuild it or go to a Auburn Pro.

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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:01 PM
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My take on it is the clutch type differentials will smoke the clutches at about the same torque level as when the gear type differentials break.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driller View Post
My take on it is the clutch type differentials will smoke the clutches at about the same torque level as when the gear type differentials break.
Sounds about right and if you need stronger than that you get a spool!
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Alan,

I realize that differentials are not the core of your business, but do you build them? If not, who would you recommend to set me up with all the hardware you described? I have a good shop locally who could install the parts, but they are not a high performance builder.

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 07:57 AM
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The best rear end out there is a true trac way stronger that a torsen I broke a torsen in my 86 in 3 passes with the blower, been running a true trac ever since, I installed a tru trac in oscars rear end build

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Robert,

Do you happen to know the part number for the Tru Trac which works with IRS? Do you also recommend 31-spline axles?

MikeB
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:21 PM
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I am running a Tru Track aka Detroit Locker in mine that holds up fine. It is pretty rough for regular street use, but much stronger than the clutch or gear type units. I have to be very careful with the gas while doing any turning, since it goes from normal differential action in a corner to like a spool with just a slight increase in gas pedal action.

I have been using this for 9 years with no problems. It takes almost as much concentration driving as a Spool does. I am above 800 on Torque and HP, but I only run it 3-4 times a year, and use Drag Radials only. At least using a steady gas pedal, it will turn a corner normal, unlike a spool.

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
Alan,

I realize that differentials are not the core of your business, but do you build them? If not, who would you recommend to set me up with all the hardware you described? I have a good shop locally who could install the parts, but they are not a high performance builder.
Are you talkign abotu the level 5 setup? There was a thread all about it on sccoa you might want to go look for. The cobra IRS axles I guess you have to find reman or used. Level 5 is expensive. That is the setup Mike Siska has in his. Prepare to put $1500 or more in it not counting the differential.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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392Bird,

I certainly don't want something with a hair trigger on the street. Are we confusing two products here? Eaton makes both the Detroit Locker (which sounds like what you have) and the Detroit Truetrac, which is an all-gear limited slip (apparently similar to the Torsen but stronger).

dirtyd0g,

Yes, I'm talking about a Level 5 setup, if that is what I need for reliability. But, as noted above, it also needs to be fully streetable since that is where the car spends most of its time. I'm willing to put a couple thousand into the right set of hardware.

MikeB
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:04 PM
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Yes he is talking about the locker the tru trac is smooth

www.robstireandauto.com for all your car needs and parts
95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
392Bird,

I certainly don't want something with a hair trigger on the street. Are we confusing two products here? Eaton makes both the Detroit Locker (which sounds like what you have) and the Detroit Truetrac, which is an all-gear limited slip (apparently similar to the Torsen but stronger).

dirtyd0g,

Yes, I'm talking about a Level 5 setup, if that is what I need for reliability. But, as noted above, it also needs to be fully streetable since that is where the car spends most of its time. I'm willing to put a couple thousand into the right set of hardware.
have you thought of doing a straight axle swap?

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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB View Post

dirtyd0g,

Yes, I'm talking about a Level 5 setup, if that is what I need for reliability. But, as noted above, it also needs to be fully streetable since that is where the car spends most of its time. I'm willing to put a couple thousand into the right set of hardware.
Check the thread on sccoa you'll have to buy direct from level5 I don't think they do any vendor discounts. Several of the guys are talking about doing a group buy. I know Neibert for sure was thinking about the swap.
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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_95badbird,

No, not seriously. I like the ride and handling with the IRS.

dirtyd0g,

I read a couple threads regarding diffs and halfshafts at SCCoA. Still confused: is Level 5 a company, or is it a product from The Driveshaft Shop?

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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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OK, ignore the under-informed question above. I went back to SCCoA and reread those threads, plus several more. Now I think I understand that Level 5 is DSS halfshafts with 31-spline inner and 33-spline outer ends, which require special hubs. Level 2, then, must be 28 or 31-spline inner and 28-spline outer ends. Both would be stronger than what I have, but Level 5 is the strongest possible IRS setup.

So, back to my original inquiry. Assuming I can resolve the high IAT issue (working on that now) and get more timing advance into the tune, I could end up with ~400 RWHP and ~450 RWTQ. The car is never going to have nitrous or a transbrake, and likely will stay on DRs. Given all that, do I really need Level 5 or would Level 2 be enough? The combination I'm thinking about upgrading to would be a Detroit Truetrac and DSS Level 2 shafts, both 31-spline. Will likely go back to 3.73 gears at the same time. What do you guys think?

MikeB
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 08:28 PM
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Honestly, stock SC halfshafts would suffice, especially if you switched to a set of bias-plys instead of DR's. Level 2 shafts should be more than strong enough.

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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 10:12 PM
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The stock stuff is plenty strong, Hans ran 11.47 with a 1.59 60ft if u want something stronger just supercoupe half shafts

www.robstireandauto.com for all your car needs and parts
95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-26-2012, 11:34 PM
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I actually trust the markVIII shafts more because the outboard joint is hardened and that is where they break first.
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick feedback. So, Mark VIII shafts, assuming I can find a set in good condition, and stay 28-spline at both ends. Is there anybody out there who reconditions these parts? I prefer to put new or "like new" parts on my car, which is part of what attracted me to the DSS shafts. Also, would adding a diff cover with IRS girdle be worthwhile?

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Last edited by MikeB; 01-27-2012 at 05:44 AM.
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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 07:49 AM
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Yes I'm running the atomicperfoance cover

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95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-29-2012, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Reviving an idle thread. I considered everybody's input but went for the overkill solution anyway. Ordered DSS Level 2 31-spline axles from Lethal Performance today, along with new 3.73 gears, installation kit and a Ford Racing IRS diff girdle. Also ordered a Detroit Truetrac 31-spline diff from Summit because Lethal could not match their price.

Interesting sidelight: the price Lethal has been advertizing for the DSS axles on their website was wrong ($176 lower than intended) and they changed it this week. But, they honored the old price for my order.

These parts will make the rear of the car as "bulletproof" as possible, make it a better cruiser, eliminate the diff / gear noises I've been hearing, and other than occasional fluid changes I should never need to touch that part of the car again.

MikeB
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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As I've stated stock is pretty stout being I'm at 660 rwhp and 516 torque I run drag radials on the street as it still breaks loose at 75 80 mph

www.robstireandauto.com for all your car needs and parts
95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Rob or Alan,

Since I'm changing from 28-spline axles and diff to 31-spline, do I also need to change the side gears?

Does somebody make a rebuild kit for the 8.8" IRS that includes all bearings and seals needed for a complete freshening?

MikeB
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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 02:25 PM
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Well the truetrac u bought is 31 spline? Correct if so u don't need to change anything, if u are keeping a trac lok u need a 31 spline trac lok

Let me know if this is what your asking

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95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'ôs ported manifolds
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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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The Truetrac I bought is 31 spline. Not having had an 8.8" IRS rear end apart before, I'm not clear on whether the axles connect via splines with the side gears.

MikeB
1997 Thunderbird Sport
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540 RWHP / 492 RWTQ
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-31-2012, 08:23 PM
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Truetrac FTW. As for your question, I know Rob will know for sure, but I think you'll be OK with what you have; the truetrac's side gears will accept the correct # of splines from the halfshafts.
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-01-2012, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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OK, I misunderstood the exploded drawing in the Service Manual. The side gears must be inside the differential, which means they came with the 31-spline Truetrac.

Been looking at rebuild kits online. It appears the Ford Racing M-4210-B or B1 (which includes high torque pinion bearing from the Shelby GT500) would be good choices. Anybody on here have experience with either of these kit?

Also found an old TCCoA tech article which says I need P/N 714569 axle shaft oil seals which are not in the FRP kits.

MikeB
1997 Thunderbird Sport
5.0L-2V PI S/C
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