how durable are the 8.8s? - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-19-2013, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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how durable are the 8.8s?

i found myself a 3l27, 180k+ on the clock. i was expecting a horror show when i popped her open.... clutches, bearings, possibly gears. but i was pleasantly surprised to see a nice pattern, very little lash, spiders gears haven't even worn in, and the clutches have a ton of meat left on them(looked like about 1/8" just peaking in).

i suppose its possible it was rebuilt not long ago, but from the look of the fluid, i don't think so... its really the only thing in their that looks like it has 180k on it >.> more like black sludge then oil. also of course the axle seals were leaking a bit.

anyway, how long do the 8.8s usually last? especially when abused.

i mean i would imagine with regular fluid changes it would last forever, but from what my father and i have seen so far before even taking the carrier out to check the pinion and bearings; i would just put some seals and a couple of quarts of royal purple in their and call it a day.

its a damn sight tighter and better looking then my 3.08 i know that, and it had fresh syn oil at 120k >.>

just got to clean it out in the parts washer.... dropped her out in the mud and got some in the side with the bearing >.> otherwise i got this thing for practically nothing from a local UpullIt, didn't even ask me what was inside, $60 with a $10 core fells like i stole it!

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 12:08 AM
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RobertP has put over 800 rwhp through his, I believe; I'm sure he's one of a few here who have TOTALLY abused theirs!

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 12:16 AM
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:23 AM
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If the gear pattern looks good and the backlash is within spec, then you will be fine to run it. I would replace the clutches anyway just because even though they look like they have plenty of meat on them, the tighter they are, the better the trak-lok will function, and the clutches are cheap and easy to replace, and you don't need to take apart the rest of the diff to do it. But to back up what others have said, short of a bearing failure or running without fluid or overheating it, they are quite strong and durable.

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:25 AM
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^ couldnt have said that better (what Matt said)

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:31 AM
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I've yet to break one, the 8.8 is a beast

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:42 AM
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From pics here and stories elsewhere, you'll be more likely to bust the carrier than damage the diff.

And THAT'S not that common!

RwP
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
From pics here and stories elsewhere, you'll be more likely to bust the carrier than damage the diff.

And THAT'S not that common!

RwP
You said it Ralph!

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I'm not sure if any amount of reinforcement of the stock rear end could have prevented this.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:56 AM
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 08:48 AM
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i installed a used unknown milage mustang t-lock in my bird.
i used, used gears as well.
also, I picked the best clutches out a few sets(used of course), and going from a 3.08 open rear to a 4.10 track lock made a night and day difference.

so, with that said, inspect the clutches, there isn't much clutch material to begin with....the 1/8th inch space you see, is more like the friction plates in between the clutches.
Aslo, if you rebuild it, stck the clutches different than the factory to get more bite.

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 02:25 PM
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All those pics can't be of the same rear end. In the first pic, the axle is pulled out of the pumpkin; in the last pic, they are both installed.

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 02:47 PM
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They are of the same rear end. You can see the axle hanging where it's seperated in the lower left hand corner of the last picture.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 05:11 PM
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I've broken the mounting ear on the aluminum mark viii case, never had any trouble with the iron tbird unit. Never broke a cover either.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 05:44 PM
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I like the cast iron differentials more than the aluminum. The cast iron is stronger and you'll have less of a chance of breaking off the ears. Aluminum your getting the weight savings and heat dissipation. And I would pass on the royal purple, save your money with another synthetic brand.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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well, it looks like one of the carrier bearings is pitted up a little... suppose ill just rebuild it. gears are still good though, and yes the clutches have a slight bit of material left, but their pretty thin. overall at least the carrier itself is good.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
They are of the same rear end. You can see the axle hanging where it's seperated in the lower left hand corner of the last picture.
Oh yeh, I see it now. Good eye, Ron!

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 04:07 AM
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Oh yeh, I see it now. Good eye, Ron!
LOL, I should know. I took the pictures.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 07:08 PM
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I think Keith broke one a few years ago with his N2O/auto/transbrake car. I remember seeing the pic. But IIRC, it looked to me like a halfshaft failure that wasted his pumpkin.

At any rate, rest your head that an 8.8 built properly with good stuff will survive just fine behind the stoutest streetable mod motors. RobertP's car proves it on every pass he makes. Is his comparable to launching off a two step with a killer 460+ inch Jesel drive-Kaase head big block I can't say as I don't recall seeing what RobertP's dyno sheet was showing for a torque curve. But if that were the case then there's really only one choice I'd be comfortable with anyway and it wouldn't even be a production Ford 9" at that point then either......seen a few them go boom too.

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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I'm looking around and i cant seem to find a clutch kit for the 8.8 irs 28 spline... a lot of the ones i find seem to be for straight axles, and summits says its not for IRS

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-4700-c

that "Designed for 1986 to 2004 Mustang with non IRS axles" leaves me scratching my head...

is their any difference at all from the non IRS... as far as i know it was just the spider gears not having a C-clip relief cut in them for the CV axle shafts, but they were more or less identical otherwise.

a lot of what i'm looking at is from http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12-t...action-lok.htm
but some of the part numbers are no longer avail..

also what do you guys think about bearing kits? national? or should i get something from timkin. i really don't like the look of the Power-torque ones from my orielly store... they have toyo bearings and races. not familiar with that brand at all, sounds kind of like cheep Chinese stuff. 762b004 is the part number.

woops, guess i overlooked M-4700-B on the tech article. that must be the one i need eh? looks like summit has it.

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95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nall_one View Post
also what do you guys think about bearing kits? national? or should i get something from timkin. i really don't like the look of the Power-torque ones from my orielly store... they have toyo bearings and races. not familiar with that brand at all, sounds kind of like cheep Chinese stuff.
I always use Ratech for rebuilding diffs and am 100% satisfied. More about Ratech.

Toyo bearings are made in India btw. Good stuff easily compares to Timken, etc..

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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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hmmm, i might think about using that power-torque kit then, i have it lying on the shelf at work... just need to get my hands on a clutch kit, possibly some gears and a shim kit

looks like i can get a national RA311 from rock auto for decent. wish i could just get it from oreilly, but it seems nobody in the midwest has one on the shelf...

huh, so i think i may have just learned something obvious while browsing some tech articles for other websites about 8.8 rebuilds... the clutches lock into the spider-gears. so the axle spline would be irrelevant would it not? are all the 8.8 spiders gears the same spline for the clutches? i think i counted 24, it was a blurry picture though. if this is true i could just order any old clutch kit for an 8.8, irs or not, cobra mustang or not, and then call it a day?

im seeing some mixed results from M-4700-C, some people like the carbon ones, and some just say stick with OE. i would think anything designed for the high horsepower cobra mustang would be an improvement from the design for a 3000lb, 16 year old family car XD

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 08:57 PM
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huh, so i think i may have just learned something obvious while browsing some tech articles for other websites about 8.8 rebuilds... the clutches lock into the spider-gears. so the axle spline would be irrelevant would it not? are all the 8.8 spiders gears the same spline for the clutches? i think i counted 24, it was a blurry picture though. if this is true i could just order any old clutch kit for an 8.8, irs or not, cobra mustang or not, and then call it a day?
The clutch fibers n steels don't care what spline count the axle shafts have.

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-21-2013, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, that's what i'm seeing, i guess their splined into a second outward facing spline on the spider gear.



now i know! and knowing is half the battle.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-04-2013, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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huh, well that's weird, my father was attempting to put the new FMS S-spring in with the old 2x4 and a hammer trick. couldn't get it to go in, i guess it was quite a bit taller then the old one.

so after a couple of attempts with some things people have tried online, he went for the press and the spring snapped before it would go in...

i was under the impression the larger spring was hard to get in, but would fit, and give you better lockup. i've herd people talking about truck S springs(which is what i assume this is) but I'm buggered to figure out how the heck your gonna get that thing in the 28 spline carrier without removing some of the clutches or something...

its an 8.8 cobra fiber clutch kit. FMS-M-4700-C

guess ill just buy a 28spline spring

edit: yeah from what i can find out, the springs have the same preload if their installed in their matched spline carrier. but if you smash the 31spline spring into a 28, you can get more preload, otherwise the 28 spline will work just as well as that 31, if i had the 31 myself.

28spline spring it is, i don't need hard locked wheels around corners anyway, I'm not dragracing, just need better winter traction

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 01:31 PM
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huh, well that's weird, my father was attempting to put the new FMS S-spring in with the old 2x4 and a hammer trick. couldn't get it to go in, i guess it was quite a bit taller then the old one.

so after a couple of attempts with some things people have tried online, he went for the press and the spring snapped before it would go in...

i was under the impression the larger spring was hard to get in, but would fit, and give you better lockup. i've herd people talking about truck S springs(which is what i assume this is) but I'm buggered to figure out how the heck your gonna get that thing in the 28 spline carrier without removing some of the clutches or something...

its an 8.8 cobra fiber clutch kit. FMS-M-4700-C

guess ill just buy a 28spline spring

edit: yeah from what i can find out, the springs have the same preload if their installed in their matched spline carrier. but if you smash the 31spline spring into a 28, you can get more preload, otherwise the 28 spline will work just as well as that 31, if i had the 31 myself.

28spline spring it is, i don't need hard locked wheels around corners anyway, I'm not dragracing, just need better winter traction
When installing the F-150 S spring and alternate clutch plate stacking on an SC diff a few years ago, it was necessary to pre-compress the spring in a vice and use a couple hose clamps to keep it compressed enough for installation with a block of wood and hammer. The process of installing the spring is a little scary if you haven't ever done it. From what I'm told the heavier spring doesn't really feel any different when driving the car around corners and stuff like that.

I'm still using the stock size S spring and standard friction/steel stack in my 91 SC. They were replaced at around 85K miles when installing gears, but no upgrades over stock. My 93 SC has an Auburn Pro and the only difference you can feel when driving is when the tires spin. On the 91 SC with stock trac loc it kicks sideways, when the 93 SC spins with the Auburn Pro it tracks dead straight.

I've recently upgraded both cars to include a heavier diff cover and rear diff mount, and also upgraded the halfshafts on the 93 SC.






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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 01:56 PM
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 02:58 PM
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FWIW, I read in a book by Sean Hyland recently about modifying late model Mustangs (skimmed the other sections as I was focused on what it said about 5.0L upgrades).

IIRC, there was a paragraph in the diff section where Sean was commenting that aluminum pumpkins can warp due to heat if used for road racing and cause the carrier bearings to pop out. Bad things would then ensue. The solution was to either a) keep the diff cool with an oil pump/cooling system, b) run an iron pumpkin instead, or c) both.

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
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I've recently upgraded both cars to include a heavier diff cover and rear diff mount, and also upgraded the halfshafts on the 93 SC.


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oohhh...nice....I need to make one of those.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 08:08 PM
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Location: Mattoon, IL
Age: 29
Posts: 101
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Ive got the same LPW cover on mine, I liked how you can adjust the load on the carrier bearings. It wasn't cheap though, and filling up the diff with fluid was a nightmare.

Silver 96 T-bird
Major Mods: Stage II PI head swap w/Stage II cams, Kooks headers, 2.5" exhaust with borla xr1, 9.5" Converter 3800 stall, Aluminum rear 3:73 gears, lots of suspension and bolt ons. 13" Cobra brakes, ss lines, lowered 1.6" on staggered saleens
Tim Barth tuned at MPH 274rwhp/298rwtq on 93
Compiling parts for Vortech build
95 SC 5 speed: bone stock for now
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lombard, IL
Age: 32
Posts: 871
I'm considering putting my leftover 8.8 in my car over my shi*ty getrag rearend, if that says anything about how strong these rearends are!

Rob
2004 QSM Pontiac GTO 1 of 889 245,00 and counting
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