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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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gears

hey guys probably a dumb question but what makes ford racing gears better than others?

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New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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quality control.

some of the cheaper gears are cheap because there not cut and machined to strict standards and their made out of subpar materials.

you get what you pay for.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 10:03 PM
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If you are looking for a deal, check locally. Ford 8.8" gears are common enough and I've bought two sets of Ford (FRPP) 3.73s for $35-60 used.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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ok I got a limited slip diff from a mustang 28 spline with 3.73 ford racing gears and clutch kit and bearing kit. I cant wait also I know its hear on the forums but I don't understand. what exactly need to be machined for this unit to work on IRS?

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 06:20 PM
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the spider gears lack the machined beveled lip for the Cclip on the axle shaft so that its secured, and pops back out. once their installed, they don't really come back out without it.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-15-2013, 10:52 AM
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Ford gears are generally great choices.

A few years ago even Ford had a huge amount of gears on the market that made excessive noise and they were sold through typical aftermarket vendors. So, even Ford makes some not-so-great parts once in awhile.

Another excellent manufacturer is Yukon Gears. They have the lowest warranty rate in the industry.....even better than Ford Racing.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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A different question. How much gear can you have before you have to start upgrading other parts.

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:54 PM
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Any gear swap requires a tune to reset the shift points and a new speedo gear so that your speedo reads correctly.

Have you read through the gears section in the Technical articles linked on the home page?

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/gears/index.html

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Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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I just did. But didn't really help. I want to know if you go to let's just say 4.10 gears do u have to up grade axels and such of that nature. I know the drive shaft should be upgraded for going over speeds of 100mph but what about other parts

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:34 PM
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Gears shouldn't require any further modifications (aside from the previously mentioned speedo-gear and tune). The driveshaft would be a smart upgrade, but not necessary if you pay attention to the speed limit (I'm not judgy if you don't).

math > pasta
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 06:24 PM
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No way would I put 4.10 gears behind that stock steel p.o.s 2-piece crimped-together driveshaft.

Delete my account.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2014, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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nope Im going with a used mark8 driveshaft. but I had another question. now I don't wont to come across as a tard but is 4.30 gears to much for my setup? the car is just a weekend I don't commute to work.

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 Thunderbird XX View Post
No way would I put 4.10 gears behind that stock steel p.o.s 2-piece crimped-together driveshaft.
gears multiply the torque going into the axles, not the torque coming out of the transmission. Shorter gears actually alleviate stress on the drivetrain pre-gears. They are the equivalent of reducing vehicle weight in terms of load on the drivetrain before the gears.

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nope Im going with a used mark8 driveshaft. but I had another question. now I don't wont to come across as a tard but is 4.30 gears to much for my setup? the car is just a weekend I don't commute to work.
only you can decide that. the car will be more fun to drive, but you can expect a couple of mpg loss in 100% city driving.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 07:02 AM
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... and a substantial drop in top speed between say 3.55 and 4.30 gears. I'd say yes, 4.30 is too much gear for your set up.

After road tripping mine last summer to Carlisle, PA and up to VA for Ford Fun Weekend I must say that 4.10's aren't a very highway friendly gear. I won't go into details but, I got my butt handed to me by a Ford Fusion Sport simply because I ran out of top end.

Stick with the 3.73's you have, you'll be happy with those. I ran them before upping mine to the 4.10's and was very pleased with their performance.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 12:04 PM
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3.90's



I have 3.90's in.

BUT-- MY car is a oval track car.

351w C4

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
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... and a substantial drop in top speed between say 3.55 and 4.30 gears. I'd say yes, 4.30 is too much gear for your set up.

After road tripping mine last summer to Carlisle, PA and up to VA for Ford Fun Weekend I must say that 4.10's aren't a very highway friendly gear. I won't go into details but, I got my butt handed to me by a Ford Fusion Sport simply because I ran out of top end.

Stick with the 3.73's you have, you'll be happy with those. I ran them before upping mine to the 4.10's and was very pleased with their performance.
you didn't run out of top end because of 4.10s, you ran out of top end because you can't turn enough RPMs
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
... and a substantial drop in top speed between say 3.55 and 4.30 gears. I'd say yes, 4.30 is too much gear for your set up.

After road tripping mine last summer to Carlisle, PA and up to VA for Ford Fun Weekend I must say that 4.10's aren't a very highway friendly gear. I won't go into details but, I got my butt handed to me by a Ford Fusion Sport simply because I ran out of top end.

Stick with the 3.73's you have, you'll be happy with those. I ran them before upping mine to the 4.10's and was very pleased with their performance.
Probably helped that the Fusion could shift past third at WOT without catastrophic failure .

-Matt
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Hahaha that's funny. Thank you guys for the comments. But back to what GM was talking about. Is there a certain amount of horsepower you need for different gears?

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 04:40 PM
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Ford fusion sport top speed was in the 120s I thought

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 02:45 AM
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Hahaha that's funny. Thank you guys for the comments. But back to what GM was talking about. Is there a certain amount of horsepower you need for different gears?
No there's no rule of thumb that this much HP is best for this or that gear. Except to say, the more HP the merrier.

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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Probably helped that the Fusion could shift past third at WOT without catastrophic failure .
Yea, the slush box that we're limited to didn't help any either.

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Ford fusion sport top speed was in the 120s I thought
He must have had it tuned or something because he was going a lot faster than that. I'd say he was doing around 140 to 150.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:02 AM
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Damn must have been a monster on the top end, I know the sport we had never gave up top end pull it would haul the mail

www.robstireandauto.com for all your car needs and parts
95 bird corn powered 735rwhp and 580 tq
86 bird vortech s trim
10.75 @128.38
95 bird - Vortech t trim
9.98 worlds fastest IRS 4.6 thunderbird
1/8 [email protected]
10.11 @ 139.19 best mph
1.47 best 60ft if I can get a full pass with this 60ftt
All made possible with Braincoating'™s ported manifolds
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Good to know. As stupid as this sounds I want to out run my farther . He has a 1995 firehawk its reasonably fast but all he does is talk smack about bird. The only track around us is the mooresville 1/8 mile. Other than that its highway but I really don't won't to be zooming down the highway at those speeds. That's why I was asking about the gears. I thought I kepted up with him pretty well for only having 3.08's but I want make him eat his words lol.


PS I was at his rear quarter panel the whole time when we were um driving home um...... yeah driving home

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
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Hahaha that's funny. Thank you guys for the comments. But back to what GM was talking about. Is there a certain amount of horsepower you need for different gears?
It's not about the HP, it's about how many RPMs you can turn. You can have a measely 100HP engine, but if the HP peak is in the 8500 range, then you can benefit from lower gears because the physical act of turning high RPMs with short gears can be considered equivalent to low RPMs with longer gears (in a general sense with regards to ultimate top speed achievable, not acceleration rate).

In the end shorter gears will ONLY hinder your top speed if your engine can't make up for the loss in RPMs (easier said than done, unless you're me). Increase the RPM potential to accommodate the shorter gears, and you have your top end back. BAM. Eazy peazy.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 03:55 PM
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It's not about the HP, it's about how many RPMs you can turn. You can have a measely 100HP engine, but if the HP peak is in the 8500 range, then you can benefit from lower gears because the physical act of turning high RPMs with short gears can be considered equivalent to low RPMs with longer gears (in a general sense with regards to ultimate top speed achievable, not acceleration rate).

In the end shorter gears will ONLY hinder your top speed if your engine can't make up for the loss in RPMs (easier said than done, unless you're me). Increase the RPM potential to accommodate the shorter gears, and you have your top end back. BAM. Eazy peazy.
At least in theory ...

I haven't seen that engine turn more than 1 RPM so far.

Just look at it go!


Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
It's not about the HP, it's about how many RPMs you can turn. You can have a measely 100HP engine, but if the HP peak is in the 8500 range, then you can benefit from lower gears because the physical act of turning high RPMs with short gears can be considered equivalent to low RPMs with longer gears (in a general sense with regards to ultimate top speed achievable, not acceleration rate).

In the end shorter gears will ONLY hinder your top speed if your engine can't make up for the loss in RPMs (easier said than done, unless you're me). Increase the RPM potential to accommodate the shorter gears, and you have your top end back. BAM. Eazy peazy.
To reinforce this statement, and to counter the statement that you would lose top speed going from stock 3.27:1 (or 3.08:1 if you have that) to 4.10 or 4.30 gears...

At 6000 RPM on 225/60R16 tires, with a 3.27:1 gear, your "top speed" is 208mph. In stock form, we simply cannot achieve that speed, our cars are aerodynamicallly limited due to lack of power to push us that far. You'd top out around 150 or so if you had enough room to get there. (incidentally, 145mph is 6000 RPM in 3rd gear with a 1:1 ratio, so maybe 160 or so at the top end at stock power levels).

With a 4.10:1 gear, the car's torque is multiplied, and at 6000 rpm in 3rd, you're running 116mph, and when you shift to 4th, that puts you right at 4200rpm, letting you pull up to that redline again and top out at 168mph, again assuming stock power levels.

So while your theoretical maximum speed does drop, your achievable top speed would increase as your car would be more able to pull more easily.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 09:10 PM
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To reinforce this statement, and to counter the statement that you would lose top speed going from stock 3.27:1 (or 3.08:1 if you have that) to 4.10 or 4.30 gears...

At 6000 RPM on 225/60R16 tires, with a 3.27:1 gear, your "top speed" is 208mph. In stock form, we simply cannot achieve that speed, our cars are aerodynamicallly limited due to lack of power to push us that far. You'd top out around 150 or so if you had enough room to get there. (incidentally, 145mph is 6000 RPM in 3rd gear with a 1:1 ratio, so maybe 160 or so at the top end at stock power levels).

With a 4.10:1 gear, the car's torque is multiplied, and at 6000 rpm in 3rd, you're running 116mph, and when you shift to 4th, that puts you right at 4200rpm, letting you pull up to that redline again and top out at 168mph, again assuming stock power levels.

So while your theoretical maximum speed does drop, your achievable top speed would increase as your car would be more able to pull more easily.
Except that the 4R70W won't let you do a top gear pull at the redline - at least not repetitively - without catastrophic failure. The fourth gear OD band just won't support that kind of power.

Case in Point:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=141557

I'm not sure if at "stock power levels" the car could pull all the way to 168 mph.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 03-17-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Well I think 116 is plenty fast. Don't want to go to much higher and I don't think I could achieve that speed on a 1/8 mile track. I don't want to lose anymore top end so I think I'm gonna stay at 4.10s won't go any lower.

1997 Thunderbird 4.6L
New paint on tops, Magnaflow high flow cat system and custom 2 - 2 1/2 Exhaust ,J-Mod and P.I. head and intake swap(performed by RobertP @ www.RobsTireAndAuto.com ) Steeda Underdrive Pulleys, Mark VIII TC, AEM dry flow air filter, Blacked out tail lights and custom painted headlights (performed by my wife) tuned by DON at http://www.lasotaracing.com/

waiting to hear theses kooks


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/391835...rd-lx-coupe-2d
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 08:33 PM
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doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it, but i was under the impression that if you went to a higher gear(3.55+), you needed a lube mod to keep from toasting your rear output seal in the trans from increased driveshaft rotation and lack of adequate lubrication.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 190k 96-97 intake swap, 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Except that the 4R70W won't let you do a top gear pull at the redline - at least not repetitively - without catastrophic failure. The fourth gear OD band just won't support that kind of power.

Case in Point:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=141557

I'm not sure if at "stock power levels" the car could pull all the way to 168 mph.
You're right.
It's been awhile since I've had a Thunderbird, and the fastest my Crown Vic gets up to is 75-80 with it's 4R70W. I forgot how weak some of these transmissions are.

Would a 4R75W be a worthwhile upgrade?
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